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Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

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Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#491

The US is structured to promote loneliness. If you want to fix it: - More free public spaces (parks with benches, squares) - More free public events and activities (free concerts, art installations, plays) - Greater physical proximity (it's hard to make eye contact if everyone drives) - Wealth distribution (create a society where one's value is not based on their net worth) - Encourage days off for community service…

Seen some of this happening in Melbourne, Australia, and it's almost suffering from too much success. Recently a free concert had to be canceled because tens of thousands of people showed up and they couldn't handle the numbers safely.

Very happy to see at least something is being tried to reverse the damage from covid.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#492

I'm also in this group, so I have a few theories as to what causes it and how to fix it. For one thing, I was severely traumatized as a kid, which delayed a lot of my social skills. I'm catching up but not all the way there yet. When my social battery is full, I can do pretty well, but if I'm even a little down, it's basically impossible to act normally. I also had it hammered into me as a kid that nobody wants me ar…

Wondering if your results are skewed towards people who are outside and therefore have a higher probability of not being lonely by virtue of them being amongst people.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#493
post #23

I'm also in this group, so I have a few theories as to what causes it and how to fix it. For one thing, I was severely traumatized as a kid, which delayed a lot of my social skills. I'm catching up but not all the way there yet. When my social battery is full, I can do pretty well, but if I'm even a little down, it's basically impossible to act normally. I also had it hammered into me as a kid that nobody wants me ar…

Helping people like you are seems like an amazing start. Maybe try to get a pyramid structure going where you teach people to help other people and then they teach people and then it’s a movement? But at all times a low level of effort so there is no pressure other than just holding up a sign or a marker. I’ve found the hardest thing is breaking the ice and the sign / marker normalises a low stakes interaction where…

I think teaching people so that they can teach others is a necessity. I've fond that the most effective meetups are the ones where people have a shared sense of ownership, which includes being welcoming to people who are new. One board game group I am a part of ran for 2 years without an official host for this reason.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#494
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how is anybody supposed to meet anyone? It used to be that you knocked on the door of the residence beside you. > And now many of them prefer the internet over socializing with people they don't care for that much in person. This is the crux of it. Your neighbours weren't ever likely to be your soulmate, but that is who was there to befriend, so you did. But now you don't have to. And since they now feel the same w…

There is also the problem of familiarity. It's awkward. Traditionally you'd live around the same people your whole life. Invariably they'd feel like family and it wouldn't feel awkward to get together. But that's not how modernity works. People move to different communities all the time, so it becomes difficult to build familial friendships with others. That's the essential problem. The internet allows us to stay in…

> People move to different communities all the time

Although now considerably less than in the past. Peak mobility occurred during the mid-1900s. Most, and increasingly more as time marches forward, will stay close to where they were born.

> That's the essential problem.

It is a problem for individuals in that situation, but does it explain a population-wide epidemic when most never actually leave their familial roots?

> If all those people were in the same city there'd be a lot more socializing.

I am among those who still live near where I was born and have known a lot of the people my whole life. Color me skeptical. Nobody has the time to. They're at work all day and when that's done it is into the car to drive their kid to who knows where to play in a sporting match thinking they are going to become a professional some day.

It was a little different 15-20 years ago. You used to be able to go down to the community centre on a Saturday night and the whole town would be there, ready to mingle. But it turns out the draw was really alcohol, and when police started cracking down on drunk drivers and health concern messaging started to gain attention, it all dwindled pretty quickly.

It's all about priorities, and socializing just isn't a priority for most people anymore. There are so many other things also vying for attention.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only do you need to create the things to do, but you need to pick up the phone and CALL them (on the telephone! not voicemail, not whatsapp/facetime) and have a conversation with them. Sometime in 2006-2008 we started sending people online invites to parties and the habit of calling people died out. If you call 12 people, on the telephone, and invite them for a dinner party next weekend, and 12 people say yes, I…

I see young people facetiming each other all the time, maybe a little too much. It definitely fills the same role as audio calls used to. But I just text. I remember when texting started to become a thing, and I was very much looking forward to the absolute convenience of being able to read and respond whatever I had time, and not have to deal with a phone call. I wonder if that was common in my generation (millenial…

Texting is for sure more convenient but you lose the "watercooler" effect, you're not going to text them "how's your mom doing?" when inviting them over for D&D via text

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trick is getting off social media. When I was a computer nerd in the 2000s, I noticed people used to like to hang around and chat, but I mostly didn't. Now, everyone is an internet addict, and I was just ahead of the curve. No one hangs around and chats anymore. When you get off social media, real life becomes far more interesting. The problem with addiction is that it's so stimulating that everything els…

Thankfully social media is getting so much worse so fast it's making this easier and easier. HN is the last social media platform I still participate in... and I suspect that might not be for too much longer. I recently logged onto Facebook and Instagram to update my 2-factor auth settings after having too many notifications of malicious login attempts. It was incredible to see what a transformation has happened ther…

Yes I feel the same way too. This exactly captures what I am feeling right now. I wish there was a way to upvote this twice, thank you so much for writing this!

The only place I am usually active is on Hackernews and on bluesky as wel

> HN has obviously held up a bit better, but the AI driven mass hallucination impacting this community, combined with the increasingly aggressive manipulation of the home page, is continually making logging out for good seem like the best option.

I am not kidding, this is so true. I don't know if I can get flagged again but oh well, The amount of manipulation happening in HN is insane and flagging and just about everything

People called me bots twice on Hackernews for no apparent reason which really hurt and then I created a post about it which got flagged again as well and the responses were.. well not so sympathetic

I feel like I would be better off being an robot than a human in hackernews at this point smh. You get called bots for simply existing and showing your viewpoint or having a viewpoint (different?) or just no apparent reason and I genuinely don't know.

Bluesky has some faults as well but It's (I must admit) more focused on politics. i like the weeds of things in coding. I found some coding spaces in bluesky but they are just not there yet. I ended up spending 2 hours or something trying to build an extension which can automatically create threads for large posts because (you can see) i love writing large posts and bluesky has 300 characters limit and that annoyed me

I don't know what to do as well. I am thinking of still using Hackernews and bluesky but to an degree of moderation. I have tried discord and that doesn't work as well.

Honestly I just don't know as well but right now I atleast feel that I am not alone in this. I am not feeling lonely about feeling like this so once again massive thank you man, these are the comments which lure me into entering hackernews. Not people accusing me of being bots for no apparent reason and this happened on both bluesky and hackernews where pople called me bot and I actually try to be respectful and uh in bluesky someone went on 10 thread comment saying silence AI or silence bot when I was trying to be reasonable for the most part until I trolled them back

And in all of this questioning myself what did I do wrong, did I have a stance and they wanted to deny it and said something, the HN instance just mentioned my name as the reason I am a clanker. All of these things genuinely made me feel like people just wont trust me in being part of this community if someone (even after being a year in) trying to respond nicely and following the rules mostly can call me clanker

Like I just don't know what to do with either bots or people who accuse (you) of being bots. Both just feel the worst in social media and are actively rotting both HN and many other communties to the point that I dont even know what are some good alternatives

I think the biggest negative impact of AI is the fact that we aren't able to trust each other online in my opinion or trust art and other issues as well.

Once again thank you man for writing this. Your comment gets what I am talking about as well and I didn't know how to summarize what I wanted to say!

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#497
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to do this. One thing I've observed is trying to arrange people to play board games is quite difficult because you can't predict how many people will show up. People get sick, misread the times, etc. And a lot of games are very sensitive to player count, so having 2 people too few or too many has the ability to make the game somewhat unplayable or risk people sitting out watching. Easier to just host…

A friend of mine has this problem with their D&D campaigns. He makes huge efforts and there’s always one or two people who flake or don’t have the same commitment level. He’s gotten quite angry and sad about it. He is trying something different now, to make a hybrid campaign where there’s a lot of one-shots in a broader story arc. It’s structured like missions in an ongoing struggle. Maybe if you want to do board gam…

Our D&D group meets once to twice a month and is about seven or eight people. That's large enough that at most two of us can not show up and we're still enough to play and enjoy ourselves. The DM writes session recaps and posts them the day before the next session. The overhead here is minimized by his taking notes during the session. This has kept our group going for something like three or four years now!

The one thing about D&D is that I know almost everyone there exclusively through the campaign, and 90% of my interactions with them have been in character, which means I actually know very little about their personal lives. We're getting better with this with non-D&D hangs though.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#498
Its mostly social anxiety. Which makes sense. Children have progressively been raised more and more on screens and devices. Teenagers rely more and more on technology to solve problems. Adults do too. No one has to interact anymore, which means many people no longer know how. Cue the anxiety.

In previous generations, you had to interact with others to get anything done at all. Kids had to play with kids, parents had to talk to the postman, the milkman, the newspaper boy, the telephone operator, the neighbors, you name it. It was a necessity for a functional life, so people did it.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#499
Kids make friends pretty easily when they go to school and later college. Only after graduating college it becomes very hard to make friends.

So one solution is have folks attend classes in schools and universities or even local libraries during weekends. Classes specifically designed for different age groups - 30s, 40s, 50s etc. Classes related music, personal finance, investing, art, sports, cooking etc

Govt should offer tax breaks for attending these classes. That would attract a lot of people.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#500

People need to purposefully and intentionally do things. Sitting home on an app, watching TV is easy. There is no fear or rejection, there is no work to get out of the house, there is no risk. But there is also no reward. My thoughts on this are you need to have multiple roots into your community. This is something that you go to often and talk to people, become a regular, say hi. Think back to how your parents or gr…

> People need to purposefully and intentionally do things. Sitting home on an app, watching TV is easy. There is no fear or rejection, there is no work to get out of the house, there is no risk. But there is also no reward. This is the wrong model: Sitting (alone) at home and working on program code or reading scientific textbooks does have a reward. Many things for which you go outside of the house or where you inte…

It's also possible to write code or read scientific textbooks for the goal of promoting social connection.
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