Live data from Hacker News

Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

facs.org

201–210 of 523 posts

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it would be useful. When controlling for variables, you normally want to compare against a baseline. If 40% of the whole population has THC in them, we'd need a control population (maybe from earlier when thc was less prominent) to see if per capita deaths has meaningfully increased. I'd do the same study, tangentially, for tech workers to see if productivity has changed when controlling for other variables.

No it wouldn't. That would be true if you looked at a variable which is not influenced by driving, like the percentage that wear red jumpers, but one would hope that not everyone is reckless enough to be highly intoxicated and drive. This is again THC apologizism, nobody would even begin to suggest this if we were talking about alcohol.

> nobody would even begin to suggest this if we were talking about alcohol.

When we talk about alcohol, we explicitly separate presence from impairment using blood alcohol concentration. We set legal thresholds because studies show a sharp increase in crash risk above those levels, relative to sober drivers. If alcohol were evaluated by merely asking "was alcohol present?" we would massively overestimate its causal role the same way THC is being overestimated here.

The problem with THC data is not that baseline comparisons are illegitimate; it's that we lack an agreed-upon, time-linked impairment metric comparable to BAC. THC metabolites persist long after intoxication, so presence alone is a weak proxy for risk.

So applying baseline controls to THC is not "apologism", it's applying the same evidentiary standards we already demand for alcohol, so the opposite of what you said.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#202

Based on the headline, I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC: > In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more law…

We've seen the same uptick in reckless driving in CO since Covid. Reddit Denver complains about it all the time. I think it's happening everywhere, and it's not clear why.

One of the lesser known dictatorship plays: the ostensible increase of police presence with a proportionate and perceptible increase in crime lead the public and local governance to embrace harsher rule of law and violations of their rights under the auspices therin.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is that our urban planning is so F@#$ed that taking away someone's ability to drive is tantamount to sentencing someone to poverty. In most of the country, you are completely dependent on a car to hold down a job, get groceries and pretty much anything else. In most other countries, not having a car is a mild to moderate inconvenience you can work around.

That's not a good reason. Other forms of criminality and reckless behavior don't get this kind of extreme leniency. People shouldn't have their license taken away over 1 speeding ticket but there need to be escalating punishments that include license suspension, community service, jail time. If someone works their way through all of these and still ends up speeding then they can't be trusted to drive a vehicle on pub…

Drivers licenses in most if not all of the U.S. are a joke, and people will still drive with suspended licenses, especially if they have to for work. Driving on a suspended license should allow the state to impound your car, though, then it would be respected.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#204
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the problem isn’t whether or not a driver is impaired, but the degree to which they are impaired.

Well, it would be good for the rest of us on the road if people driving two tons of murder box are 0% impaired. I'm no angel but I have gotten more diligent... I'm just reacting to "the degree". The goal has to be zero degrees of impairment when a moment of inattention can kill. Also, my son was just hit by a driver while he was on a bike and in the bike lane. They claimed not to see him. He's fine thankfully but it'…

There are some occupations where we aspire to that low level of risk. But it would mean that driving can't be an everyday activity for ordinary people.

No driving if you haven't been getting proper sleep; no driving if jet lagged. No driving if your attention is impaired by grief, stress, or impatience. Or if your annual physical reveals a risk. Or if you've ever had psychological complaints.

We should absolutely make transportation safer, but it's a continuum of tradeoffs.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#205
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the heck? How can you get that many tickets and still have a license? (Or manageable insurance costs for that matter lol)

It's simple. People drive without a license. Having a license doesn't preclude someone from driving a vehicle

I once drove my car a month after it's registration expired. I was pulled over twice in the same day on the same ride home from work, in two separate counties in two separate legal systems. Completely my fault of course. I went to the courts of each county on the appointed day on my tickets, explained what happened to the clerks and had both tickets waved after showing proof of current registration.

The only problem was the two counties had shared but not integrated records systems with each other, as well the state drivers license authority. For two years, my cases got jumbled around the three systems, triggering plate and license suspensions which lead to me getting pulled over four times in that two year period.

It eventually all got sorted out without a lawyer. I didn't have to pay for anything beyond the first two tickets, and many hours on the phone. What was really notable was that by stop number four, from the perspective of the cop who pulled me over, I was someone who had been driving with suspended registration and/or license three times in a row. I was allowed to drive away three out of four times including the last time, and one time the cop would not let me drive, he waited with me patiently until my wife could be dropped off to get the car.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but to be honest I was surprised how not a big deal it was to anyone.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#206
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary: we should test for the actual issue (impairment) rather than an arbitrary number.

So you’re advocating that a cop makes a subjective judgement about your impairment level? I don’t see how anyone could find an issue with that.

Then develop more empirical measures of impairment. A device that tests response time, etc. Doctors have been doing that with a hammer to the knee for decades, optometrists do it with a headset that flashes lights where you have to press a clicker, etc. - we have the tools.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is that our urban planning is so F@#$ed that taking away someone's ability to drive is tantamount to sentencing someone to poverty. In most of the country, you are completely dependent on a car to hold down a job, get groceries and pretty much anything else. In most other countries, not having a car is a mild to moderate inconvenience you can work around.

Why do we care about this type of sentencing to poverty and not every other way we condemn our citizens to poverty, homelessness, starvation, and death? Maybe that shouldn't be the only alternative in our society

The alternative is that we invest in better public transport and walkable infrastructure. then we can both increase penalties for driving badly AND raise the bar for getting a drivers license in the first place.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I feel like the United States could dramatically improve its road safety if it kept maybe 1-3% of its drivers off the road permanently.

the problem is that our urban planning is so F@#$ed that taking away someone's ability to drive is tantamount to sentencing someone to poverty. In most of the country, you are completely dependent on a car to hold down a job, get groceries and pretty much anything else. In most other countries, not having a car is a mild to moderate inconvenience you can work around.

Sounds like a good reason not to commit traffic crimes then.

Start punishing these people severely so that they might serve as an example to the rest

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my ex-girlfriend challenged this in court last year and lost. She was pulled over coming home and forced to take a field sobriety test. She was angry and was refusing, trying to explain that she just got off work. They arrested her for DUI. Called me to get the vehicle with her crying in the squad car. I bailed her out of jail for $500 two days later. Her BAC was 0. Her attitude when asked to perform the field sobrie…

She needs to hire a lawyer, this happens far too often. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFuVdlKD00s

We hired the best lawyer in town. Spent $20,000.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#210
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be the other way around. If there’s no good way to test, then no driving with any THC in blood.

so we're all going to subject ourselves to blood sampling to get behind the wheel?

Maybe just not legalize THC if there is no easy way to test if THC users are intoxicated.

And punish illegal users regardless of intoxication level. Medical users should just abstain from driving while in it.

Post reply on HN