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Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

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Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more lawlessness regarding excessive speeding and running red lights, going into the left lane to turn right in front of stopped cars, all sorts of weird things NYC has had the same effect since COVID, and over the last year or two it's gotten to the point where every single light at every busy intersection in Manhattan you get 2-3 cars…

I haven’t seen driving behavior change in NYC over the past two decades. Also, NYC has a different driving attitude than, say, Dallas. What people call aggression is often a difference in expectations. Drivers change lanes and merge far more assertively than in other parts of the country. As long as you aren’t causing the car behind you to panic brake, it’s considered acceptable. Hesitation from drivers tends to get…

Traffic safety engineers do not agree with all of those things. don't be an agressive driver even if everyone else is.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can only cure this if we get serious about penalties Saying that in the country with world-leading mass incarceration mostly due to its decades long “war on drugs” which has very much not cured drug problems is a perfect example of putting ideological preconceptions ahead of reality.

> Saying that in the country with world-leading mass incarceration mostly due to its decades long “war on drugs” which has very much not cured drug problems is a perfect example of putting ideological preconceptions ahead of reality. I wish I could emphasize this even more. There are some situations where certain types of punishments in certain situations will achieve societal behavior change. There's a lot more wher…

> There are some situations where certain types of punishments in certain situations will achieve societal behavior change.

> There's a lot more where it doesn't

Or, at least, not the behavior change you are hoping for.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're doing anecdotes I'm sure there are lots of drunk drivers with spotless records. I understand that you're taking issue with the idea of always being impaired, but the article indicates that there's a pretty clear association between having ingested THC and being in a car crash.

There’s also an association with having drank water and been in a car crash. This on its own can’t reasonably inform any opinions, more context is required.

Enough with the pedantry please:

"Driving under the influence of cannabis was associated with a significantly increased risk of motor vehicle collisions compared with unimpaired driving (odds ratio 1.92 (95% confidence interval 1.35 to 2.73); P=0.0003); we noted heterogeneity among the individual study effects (I2=81)".

From https://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e536

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#134
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reading doesn’t make sense. There’s no way to extrapolate from this to any statement about 40% of the population, and even 40% of the day is a serious misread imo.

I'm replying to a comment suggesting that this data may be close to population levels rather than something different in the autopsy population. I'm arguing that if the population data looks anything like the autopsy data, it would imply a massive epidemic of THC overuse.

> it would imply a massive epidemic of THC overuse.

Not really, due to THC content in the body not being a reliable indicator of impairment or even time since use.

If BAC were more like THC levels, I suspect the data would show 40% or more of the population has consumed alcohol - or, in your words, is drunk "at any given moment"

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#135
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s underappreciated the degree to which police and LEO have started behaving like political actors. NYC cops decided to “strike on the job” when the city started changing its stance in the mid-2010s, and in the Bay the cops responded similarly to Prop 47 by effectively not prosecuting shoplifting and other minor crimes anymore. Similarly, the recall of Pamela Price started almost the moment she took office…

There's probably some of this, but I think it's driven by district attorney not prosecuting people. We see people that have 20+ prior arrests. How many times can a cop arrest the same person and do the paperwork if he's not going to be prosecuted? I don't think people are pushing police to arrest more people. > Nearly a third of all shoplifting arrests in New York City last year involved just 327 people, the police s…

Yeah, I always wonder why we can't have an "n strikes and you get the electric chair" type of law, where n can be decided. Clearly at that point that person is better off not alive.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#136

I am curious what percentge of the general populous test positive for THC. It would give better context to a dead drivers testing positive for THC.

I don't think it is that simple. I would wager $$$ that dead drivers tend to skew younger, mostly young men who think they are great drivers, drive way too fast, pass with little margin, etc. Young people probably skew higher for THC use as well.

Having said that, I think that effect explains only part of the 40%, but can't explain all of it.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#137
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak. Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in whi…

What the heck? How can you get that many tickets and still have a license? (Or manageable insurance costs for that matter lol)

It's simple. People drive without a license. Having a license doesn't preclude someone from driving a vehicle

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#138
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was tboned by someone that swore their light was green. I had a dedicated turn. Thank goodness for cameras. The trend I’ve noticed this year is turning right from the middle lane cutting off people in the turn lane.

Are they cutting them off, though? If the street you're turning onto has two lanes, it shouldn't be a problem for two cars to turn at once. The car on the inside is required to turn into the nearest lane (according to any state law I know), so why can't the car on its left turn into its own lane?

> Are they cutting them off, though?

Its possible for multiple lanes to turn without anyone cutting anyone off, but its also possible for people to turn right from the middle lane of the source street into the rightmost lane of the target street, cutting off people in the rightmost lane of the source street attempting to turn, or to make a right turn from a middle lane that is not allowed to turn, cutting of a legal right-into-any-lane from the rightmost lane when it is the only turning lane, so if someone explicitly says that's what they see and there is no available counterevidence that they are misreporting their observation, questioning it accompanied by a description of how it is possible for people to turn from multiple lanes into distinct lanes in harmony without anyone being cutoff is not particularly useful.

> the car on the inside is required to turn into the nearest lane (according to any state law I know)

That's the base rule in most jurisdictions, but there are places where it doesn't apply. See, e.g., for California: https://law.justia.com/codes/california/code-veh/division-11...

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#139
post #87

> In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. That could mean they all had levels far exceeding most state impairment limits, but it also could mean most of them had trace levels, while a few had levels way above 30.7 ng/mL. So, it says fairly little. Also (FTA) “Researchers analyzed coroner…

Came here to say most of this, also worth calling out the note at the bottom:

> Note: This research was presented as an abstract at the ACS Clinical Congress Scientific Forum. Research abstracts presented at the ACS Clinical Congress Scientific Forum are reviewed and selected by a program committee but are not yet peer reviewed.

My guess is when it gets to peer review, one of the reviewers will request at least mentioning these limitations. As it was only an abstract, it’s possible the paper itself does mention these limitations already as well.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the truth is that habitual users are always impaired. Source: former habitual user.

Got any real sources? I've been a daily user for over 10 years and also have a spotless driving record.

> I've been a daily user for over 10 years and also have a spotless driving record.

I knew a guy who drove home from bars unquestionably over the legal limit (example: 4-5 drinks in 90 minutes) every single weekend for years without getting caught or getting in accident.

It doesn’t mean he wasn’t impaired.

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