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Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

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Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#161

Post by leptons »

xienze wrote: post #67
watwut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely would. If 40% of people test positive for THC, then this would mean there is no effect. I find it unlikely 40% of people test positive for THC, but yes, it does matter.

The article is not saying 40% of all drivers tested positive, it’s stating that 40% of people who died in a car accident tested positive, at pretty high levels too.

The levels described are actually pretty low. The "legal limit" is so low for THC that anyone who's had THC in the previous days could test positive, even if they aren't "high" at the time of driving. It isn't quite the same as the BAC legal limits for alcohol. And it doesn't account for body weight, tolerance, and other factors that definitely contribute to how a driver reacts no matter how long it's been since they consumed THC.

And the study doesn't seem to differentiate between the different types of THC either, some of which are not psychoactive at all and which people use to relieve pain and anxiety. There's quite a lot of people using non-psychoactive THC which wouldn't impair driving.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#162

Post by staplers »

modeless wrote: post #154
epistasis wrote: post #7

Based on the headline, I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC: > In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more law…

If you're in San Francisco, the city essentially stopped issuing traffic tickets when COVID started. It's no wonder lawlessness increased. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/xMUFt/mobile.png

  the city essentially stopped issuing traffic tickets
I think you mean "law enforcement" stopped enforcing established laws.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#163

Post by Aurornis »

epistasis wrote: post #7

Based on the headline, I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC: > In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more law…

> I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC:

A lot of people are trying to debate the impairment threshold or argue about mean vs median, but 40% of deceased drivers having this much THC in their blood would be a notable result for basically any sample of people for anything other than a music festival or something.

The number of people age 12 or older who report any THC use at all, even once, in the past year is around 20% (or less depending on the survey). Having 40% of a group register levels this high is a very eye opening result.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#164

Post by xienze »

loeg wrote: post #110
xienze wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re advocating that a cop makes a subjective judgement about your impairment level? I don’t see how anyone could find an issue with that.

They are doing this every day for drunk drivers already.

And field sobriety tests are routinely challenged in court because they aren’t objective and at best, they’re taken into consideration with other things like BAC.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#165

Post by the_gastropod »

sallveburrpi wrote: post #115
mrj wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it would be good for the rest of us on the road if people driving two tons of murder box are 0% impaired. I'm no angel but I have gotten more diligent... I'm just reacting to "the degree". The goal has to be zero degrees of impairment when a moment of inattention can kill. Also, my son was just hit by a driver while he was on a bike and in the bike lane. They claimed not to see him. He's fine thankfully but it'…

Zero degree of impairment is only possible if we don’t have access to 2 tons of murder box. I think the way cars dominate roads and our public spaces and how they are being used is inherently dangerous. I know this is going to get downvoted by people who cant imagine an alternative but it’s possible all the same.

I borderline want a conscription-style policy, where young adults are required to live in Boston, Philadelphia, NYC, DC, Seattle, or Chicago, car-free for a year. Americans’ inability to even imagine a world where a car isn’t the way to get around is really a problem.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#166

Post by cultofmetatron »

spamizbad wrote: post #124
macNchz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak. Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in whi…

Yeah I feel like the United States could dramatically improve its road safety if it kept maybe 1-3% of its drivers off the road permanently.

the problem is that our urban planning is so F@#$ed that taking away someone's ability to drive is tantamount to sentencing someone to poverty. In most of the country, you are completely dependent on a car to hold down a job, get groceries and pretty much anything else. In most other countries, not having a car is a mild to moderate inconvenience you can work around.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#167

Post by dragonwriter »

xienze wrote: post #67
watwut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely would. If 40% of people test positive for THC, then this would mean there is no effect. I find it unlikely 40% of people test positive for THC, but yes, it does matter.

The article is not saying 40% of all drivers tested positive, it’s stating that 40% of people who died in a car accident tested positive, at pretty high levels too.

> It’s stating that 40% of people who died in a car accident tested positive, at pretty high levels too.

It doesn't say anything about the distribution, only that the "average" (presumably, the arithmetic mean, a measure particularly sensitive to distortion by outliers) was at a particularly high level.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#168

Post by lamontcg »

epistasis wrote: post #7

Based on the headline, I was guessing it was any amount of positivity, and may be close to the population level, but it's actually impairment levels of THC: > In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits. Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more law…

> Since COVID ...

I was noticing driving getting worse before COVID.

It is the plague of narcissism and individualism out there (which doesn't just affect "boomers" but also every millennial and zoomer that dreams of doing nothing other than becoming an "influencer" and posts their life on their Instagram).

Social media, low attention spans, cellphone and driving distractions, narcissism, and "fuck you, got mine" culture is going to wind up being to blame. It is a population-wide axis II personality disorder.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#169

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

darubedarob wrote: post #90
zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to Fargo. I see it multiple times a year. Usually right after a new semester starts and the farm kids don't know about one ways haha

Its usually drivers license transfers from countries where small bribes can "buy" you a license? https://wise.com/us/blog/transfer-international-driver-licen... The worst offenders are usually the older generations of countries where driving en mass is a recent thing. The old red guard uncles and aunties regularly run red lights cause who gives a damn about the law when you experienced the rule of the mob throughout…

I'm mostly talking about white college students, though I can think of one instance of a Nepali colleague's grandma hitting sometime in our parking lot and almost hitting my car in another incident.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#170

Post by reactordev »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #112
quickthrowman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can smoke a lot of weed and not “feel high” yet I would test off the charts on this test. > With marijuana it’s not. So until we have a valid method of testing if someone is “too stoned to drive” we have to push back on any attempt to classify marijuana users as ineligible to drive. I agree. As someone who regularly consumes 250mg of edibles daily at a minimum, I’m sure my levels would be off the charts on a cons…

There are individuals that have a high tolerance of alcohol. Thankfully society didn’t make exceptions. Eventually. I see THC taking the same, slow, tortured approach.

Sadly, I tend to agree with you.

Anecdote, I'm a user, by choice, and by habit/addiction. I was first exposed to it through, oddly enough, martial arts as a young teen. The punk rock scene of the 90s didn't help much either. Both me and my ex-wife were what you would call "techno-hippies". We would smoke as much weed as we could, and I would code and she would do her thing (she was a biologist so I have no clue, something genes). We had a rhythm and we liked the high grade one hit and you're good kind of marijuana.

When 2018 came around, The Farm Bill (tm) passed and it loosened the terms of what "hemp" was. The budding cannabis industry saw this as an opportunity to mess with genetics. They discovered that if you harvest early, immediately freeze it, D9-THC doesn't convert from it's precursor - THC-A. So then they started shipping "hemp" in the form of THC-A all over the states. All you have to do to "finish" the process is to decarboxylate it into D9-THC. However, there's also D8-THC which doesn't get you nearly as "high" and only lasts minutes. It, too, can be frozen to prevent it from converting from it's precursor - THC-A... What?!? So you really don't know whether it's D8 or D9 from the dispensary (and neither do they) and the quality is all over the charts.

I think this is why it's affecting driving so much. People who are used to the smoke shop D8 weed get their hands on some real D9 and it blows their minds.

God I wish we had a breathalyzer test for D9-THC. Without it, it's going to get legislated to the point where you're on the disabled "can't drive or operate any machinery, ever" list. You already give up your right to own a gun when you sign up for medical marijuana. (and when buying one, it asks you if you use...)

I'm definitely for making the roads safer, but I'm also pro-rights and liberties so this one is hard for me. Yes, there should be some legislation around marijuana, no it shouldn't be a schedule I-III but looked at like hops and barley. Tax the shit out of it. Like you do cigarettes. Don't prevent me from driving because I smoked a cigarette.

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