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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#271

Post by huhkerrf »

le-mark wrote: post #19
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #2

“The change means that all 18-year-olds in Germany will be sent a questionnaire from January 2026 asking if they are interested and willing to join the armed forces. The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women.“ - all men have to fill out and return a form, I suppose this will work to increase recruitment. Doesn’t seem very controversial.

Eighteen year olds in the US have to fill out a “selective services” form. This was for the draft, and continues in case the draft is ever reinstated. So in peace time not problem, in wartime? Different story.

Correction: Eighteen year old men have to register. Women don't.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#272

Post by frmersdog »

fifilura wrote: post #94
frmersdog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History shows that the best way to resist, in these circumstances, might be to let them in, and then blow them up in the streets and countryside until they leave. It's cheaper and (morbidly enough) probably has a lower human cost.

What history shows that?

Russia in Afghanistan. America in Afghanistan. America in Iraq. America and France in Vietnam. France in Algeria. France in Haiti. Britain in Ireland.

Honorable mention to Britain in America and Germany in France, where guerilla/resistance forces were instrumental in the eventual allied victories, even though the invaders were eventually toppled by outside armies.

I dunno, maybe Berliners would prefer becoming Ukrainian War-era Kyiv instead of WWII-era Paris after all.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#273

Post by fifilura »

frmersdog wrote: post #272
fifilura wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What history shows that?

Russia in Afghanistan. America in Afghanistan. America in Iraq. America and France in Vietnam. France in Algeria. France in Haiti. Britain in Ireland. Honorable mention to Britain in America and Germany in France, where guerilla/resistance forces were instrumental in the eventual allied victories, even though the invaders were eventually toppled by outside armies. I dunno, maybe Berliners would prefer becoming Ukrain…

No. That is really bloody and a last resort. And horrible for civilians. Bucha and Irpin are counter-examples.

Russians should only be treated with a very long stick.

Guerilla warfare is not winning, it is making things a huge mess.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#274

Post by frmersdog »

Hackbraten wrote: post #93
frmersdog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History shows that the best way to resist, in these circumstances, might be to let them in, and then blow them up in the streets and countryside until they leave. It's cheaper and (morbidly enough) probably has a lower human cost.

Wouldn't that require military training, too?

Sure, but it doesn't require throwing young people who don't care to fight into pitched battle meat grinders.

Obviously, either path is undesirable. It would be nice if we could use some of those "undermining and overthrowing regimes we don't like" expertise on actual threats instead of countries that just want to nationalize their resources.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#275

Post by Amezarak »

jijijijij wrote: post #258
Amezarak wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am continually befuddled that people unironically believe government policy should enable people to be paid below the market rate for their labor. Raise their pay!

Just in case you don't know, Germany gets a minimum wage of 13.90€/h (~16.20 USD) in 2026, and 14.60€/h (~17 USD) in 2027. Nurses aren't actually paid badly (they get paid above minimum wage), they usually don't complain/protest about wages. The problem stems from being understaffed and consequently bad working conditions. The core issues is hospitals being run like private businesses, which means they are not afford…

It doesn’t matter what the wages are, if there aren’t enough people willing to work for them, they aren’t high enough. That’s the core of labor markets.

Importing migrants just worsens the underlying problem. You destroy your own pipeline and eventually run out of migrants. Germany needs to pay more and provide a better work environment instead of just finding people desperate enough it seems like a good deal.

Edit: I just checked and the average German nurse salary is (43k in USD vs 88k USD) less than half the average US RN salary. Crazy!

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#276

Post by jijijijij »

sunshine-o wrote: post #268
jijijijij wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under scientific scrutiny it is not, tho. Contact interventions are considered the most effective tool to reduce prejudices across domains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_hypothesis https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014971892...

If you want to get an idea of what a war situation would do to a society like Germany just remember Covid. A battle between humanity and a virus deeply deeply divided our society. If I remember correctly Germany or Austria were ready to put non vaccinated people in jails. About every lines of division deepens.

The topic isn't a "war situation" tho, but the forming of an army as deterrent.

I think you are arguing in bad faith. Otherwise you would have recognized Covid isolation has been the opposite of contact interventions. Oh and of course this:

> If I remember correctly Germany or Austria were ready to put non vaccinated people in jails.

You remember wrong, non vaccinated people actually got publicly sodomized by general Drosten himself before euthanization. The former now has been ruled unconstitutional, but failing to get every new vaccine within 3 months is still punishable by death. Life in Germany is unbearable, please stay away!

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#277

Post by hulitu »

jijijijij wrote: post #220
sunshine-o wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the military and war is like putting a society in a pressure cooker. Nothing good comes out of it. We have been told in most stories that this is a time when people come together and stand up but this is really propaganda. The reality is most people go a little bit crazy and paranoid in these situation. Understandably. For example, friendly fires have always been very much under reported. Can you imagine what…

Dude, it's kids. Their mind isn't set in stone, their opinions aren't very founded. Basic military service also includes ethical/political education. People are not getting packed into trenches yet, it's not prison. If anything, this is going to help tensions in society. They will share rooms, showers, dirt and sweat. We're all the same. Nothing has been shown more effective at tearing down prejudices than actual exp…

> People are not getting packed into trenches yet, it's not prison

Yet. And no it is not prison. Is forced labour and death so that some assholes make more profit.

Did you notice that every "patriot" who says "we will defend our country" never goes on the front line ? The same with their children.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#278

Post by lawn »

distances wrote: post #269
justsomejew wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Conspired with the nazis to divide Europe" - was pushed to reach an agreement with Germany by the other parties, Soviet Union did realize the danger of the nazi regime, and this was not the preferred course, even for Stalin's regime. "Used only sarcastically in Eastern Europe" You just forgot to add "after decades of antirussian propaganda". And still, there are people who don't think about it sarcastically at all,…

So now Soviet Union was "pushed" to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, and to attack independent countries? I'm sure modern Russia was also "pushed" to attack Ukraine and Georgia? There's no need for antirussian propaganda. The Russian actions speak for themselves, have always done so, and will continue to do so.

> I'm sure modern Russia was also "pushed" to attack Ukraine and Georgia?

Well yeah, that is indeed what the Russian argument is: America/NATO forced us to attack Ukraine. There was no choice!

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#279

Post by speedbird »

nicbou wrote: post #264
speedbird wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you want the benefits of living in a country then you should be willing to defend it. This attitude of entitlement without responsibility is exactly what gives migrants a bad name.

I'm not getting any benefits. I was raised and educated elsewhere. I have no access to most social services. I have no kids. I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back. The services I've been getting were really nothing to write home about. Ever since I moved here, the law made it very clear that this was a transactional relationship. That cuts both ways. I uphold German values in my everyday behaviour. Kill…

So why are you there then?

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#280

Post by throwaway6734 »

nicbou wrote: post #264
speedbird wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you want the benefits of living in a country then you should be willing to defend it. This attitude of entitlement without responsibility is exactly what gives migrants a bad name.

I'm not getting any benefits. I was raised and educated elsewhere. I have no access to most social services. I have no kids. I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back. The services I've been getting were really nothing to write home about. Ever since I moved here, the law made it very clear that this was a transactional relationship. That cuts both ways. I uphold German values in my everyday behaviour. Kill…

> I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back

I find this point of view to be profoundly sad and I hope it’s not shared by the majority of immigrants to germany

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