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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#251

Post by ImJamal »

OKRainbowKid wrote: post #238
akimbostrawman wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>mandatory for men and voluntary for women. this is what "patriarchy" actually looks like but you sure won't see anybody on the left complain about that....

Plenty of people are complaining, and we currently have a right-wing government. Your username is quite apt.

I think he is saying nobody on the left is complaining about how it is mandatory for men, but voluntary for women making it a sexist policy. People might be complaining about it is happening overall, but not about the sexist part.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#252

Post by jijijijij »

nsoqm wrote: post #236
jijijijij wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, it's kids. Their mind isn't set in stone, their opinions aren't very founded. Basic military service also includes ethical/political education. People are not getting packed into trenches yet, it's not prison. If anything, this is going to help tensions in society. They will share rooms, showers, dirt and sweat. We're all the same. Nothing has been shown more effective at tearing down prejudices than actual exp…

> We're all the same. Nothing has been shown more effective at tearing down prejudices than actual exposure and confrontation. History is full of counter-examples.

Under scientific scrutiny it is not, tho. Contact interventions are considered the most effective tool to reduce prejudices across domains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_hypothesis

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014971892...

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#253

Post by throwawaypath »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #27
baal80spam wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_men_are_created_equal

One, I'm not sure what American founding ideals have to do with Germany. Two, Germany, like most countries and frankly human populations, has a male surplus in its fighting-age population [1]. This is why, historically, large socities tended to wage war with men first. (Even those that e.g. held elite units in reserve, which undermines the usual biological argument.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_…

>has a male surplus in its fighting-age population

The "male surplus fighting-age population" in Germany will flee to the next European host or back to the MENA country they fled from if conscription begins.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#254

Post by sunshine-o »

jijijijij wrote: post #214
sunshine-o wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups. So it could be: - the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD - the people fighting the AfD in the street - the second generation immigrants born there - the very recent immigrants - a mix of all Because the alchemy of creating a working army an…

Lol, that's not an exhaustive characterization of "this generation". Most people are in neither group. Also, the AfD folks would be rather fighting for Russia, the leftist activists will conscientiously object, and recent immigrants are not allowed to serve. Very weird to mention "second gen immigrants", as if ethnostate-ish racial tension is a wider issue in Germany and they are not normal citizens. I see no differe…

> Also, the AfD folks would be rather fighting for Russia

This is what I was suspecting a bit.

But how did they get there? didn't the people from the former German Democratic Republic (where AfD is very strong and a lot of recruits are) broke the wall to liberate themselves from Russia and the USSR?

What happened in the last decade that they would now swing back to Russia?

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#255

Post by IAmGraydon »

consumer451 wrote: post #250
nickdothutton wrote: post #248

Europe in general, most countries, are being shaken awake from a long slumber by a number of recent and current events.

Agreed. This is a rational response to the USA's protective umbrella being discarded, and the end of NATO. Europe became far too complacent, and the change is going to be quite uncomfortable at the very least. Again, this is a very rational response and I applaud the German government for being realistic.

You have a source for NATO ending, I’m sure?

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#256

Post by PeterStuer »

Garlef wrote: post #110
venturecruelty wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic move: make the kids struggle, then offer them a lifeline if they just put on a uniform. The GI bill is great, but you shouldn't have to step on an IED to go to college.

Nah... That's a cute idea but here's some actual data: https://www.bundeswehrkarriere.de/downloads/mannschaften/936 tl;dr: Okay but it's not golden by any means.

Got to love how they camo their letterhead.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#257

Post by pixxel »

fabianholzer wrote: post #163
markus_zhang wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can Germans elaborate on this? I have heard some stories but I don’t know the truth of them.

Yes, the billboard advertisement part is true. But billboards in Germany are fewer and smaller than in other parts of the world. And the Bundeswehr ad campaign is nothing that will convince anyone who would not be convinced otherwise already. If you notice the ads as a German citizen at all, you'll most likely shrug, or ask your self: Since. When. Is. It. Ok. To. Pretend. A. Single. Word. Forms. A. Sentence? (for con…

[dead]

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#258

Post by jijijijij »

Amezarak wrote: post #184
nicbou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There just isn't enough people who are local and want to do this job for this pay. This happens in Germany but also in my home country. In Germany there is a whole industry around recruiting foreign nurses. I work in immigration and a few of my colleagues specialise in that. There are websites and initiatives just for that. It will get worse. This population is aging.

I am continually befuddled that people unironically believe government policy should enable people to be paid below the market rate for their labor. Raise their pay!

Just in case you don't know, Germany gets a minimum wage of 13.90€/h (~16.20 USD) in 2026, and 14.60€/h (~17 USD) in 2027.

Nurses aren't actually paid badly (they get paid above minimum wage), they usually don't complain/protest about wages. The problem stems from being understaffed and consequently bad working conditions. The core issues is hospitals being run like private businesses, which means they are not affording redundancy. It's a systemic problem with the medical system, which has little to do with wages, or immigration.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#259

Post by PeterStuer »

jalapenos wrote: post #181

[flagged]

To be fair those boomers probably were subjected to non voluntary military service in their youth, and many of them now told to work longer before getting a pension while getting fired at 59.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#260

Post by PeterStuer »

sunshine-o wrote: post #254
jijijijij wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, that's not an exhaustive characterization of "this generation". Most people are in neither group. Also, the AfD folks would be rather fighting for Russia, the leftist activists will conscientiously object, and recent immigrants are not allowed to serve. Very weird to mention "second gen immigrants", as if ethnostate-ish racial tension is a wider issue in Germany and they are not normal citizens. I see no differe…

> Also, the AfD folks would be rather fighting for Russia This is what I was suspecting a bit. But how did they get there? didn't the people from the former German Democratic Republic (where AfD is very strong and a lot of recruits are) broke the wall to liberate themselves from Russia and the USSR? What happened in the last decade that they would now swing back to Russia?

They discovered that just like under 'communism', in the 'west' not everyone gets the life of the top 10%.
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