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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#171

Post by justsomejew »

lawn wrote: post #115
appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

Learning to speak Russian, and to live with the massive amount of corruption, prosecution, genocide, and much lower quality of life. Assuming you survive the initial wave of plunder, rape and murder of course.

[flagged]

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#172

Post by flohofwoe »

sunshine-o wrote: post #131
nicbou wrote: post #28

To offer a bit of context, the same government just voted to raise current pensions at the expense of steep taxation hikes for current workers, made massive cuts to social services, and is now discussing military service. This generation is rightfully feeling like they're getting a sore deal.

Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups. So it could be: - the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD - the people fighting the AfD in the street - the second generation immigrants born there - the very recent immigrants - a mix of all Because the alchemy of creating a working army an…

> A mix of all will end up obviously in a disaster

Why would an army that directly mirrors the civil society be a bad thing?

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#174

Post by sunshine-o »

nicbou wrote: post #151
sunshine-o wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups. So it could be: - the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD - the people fighting the AfD in the street - the second generation immigrants born there - the very recent immigrants - a mix of all Because the alchemy of creating a working army an…

I'm in the "recent" immigrants group. I qualify for citizenship since a few years, but this Wehrpflicht nonsense is why I haven't sent my application yet. I don't think that the social situation is as bad as you describe. I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany.

> I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany.

Yes this what I am sincerely wondering: which group (however you want to define it) of relatively young people, do they believe they can leverage "to put their life on the line for Germany"?

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#175

Post by jasonvorhe »

fifilura wrote: post #155
jasonvorhe wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Maybe you should look for other sources than random YouTube videos of people shopping in central Moscow. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-st...

And you're posting a 6+ years old news report about indoor plumbing for a country with the lowest population density (in squared kilometers) of ~8.5 compared to ~35 (US) and ~100 (all of the EU) as if it had any meaning.

Good luck, man.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#176

Post by jasonvorhe »

lawn wrote: post #156
jasonvorhe wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in your experience there is only one or the other and there's no room for nuance and neutral assessments of both positions? Guess who has been propagandized.

There is nuance and neutral assessments, but your comment provides absolutely none of that. The state of Russia are very well documented you know, by countless of neutral observers. Yet you dismiss it all as "mainstream media propaganda".

Reading the nuanced and neutral assessments where what convinced me that mainstream media propaganda is an issue in the first place but I see that this isn't leading anywhere.

Good luck on your path.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#177

Post by flohofwoe »

justsomejew wrote: post #171
lawn wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to speak Russian, and to live with the massive amount of corruption, prosecution, genocide, and much lower quality of life. Assuming you survive the initial wave of plunder, rape and murder of course.

[flagged]

Here, educate yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_...

The Red Army wasn't all that civilized either on their way to Berlin.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#178

Post by hilios »

nicbou wrote: post #151
sunshine-o wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups. So it could be: - the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD - the people fighting the AfD in the street - the second generation immigrants born there - the very recent immigrants - a mix of all Because the alchemy of creating a working army an…

I'm in the "recent" immigrants group. I qualify for citizenship since a few years, but this Wehrpflicht nonsense is why I haven't sent my application yet. I don't think that the social situation is as bad as you describe. I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany.

I think people generally aren't keen on putting their life on the line for anything. But even if this was a mandatory conscription, there is still the constitutional right of conscientious objection.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#180

Post by sunshine-o »

flohofwoe wrote: post #172
sunshine-o wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups. So it could be: - the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD - the people fighting the AfD in the street - the second generation immigrants born there - the very recent immigrants - a mix of all Because the alchemy of creating a working army an…

> A mix of all will end up obviously in a disaster Why would an army that directly mirrors the civil society be a bad thing?

Because the military and war is like putting a society in a pressure cooker. Nothing good comes out of it.

We have been told in most stories that this is a time when people come together and stand up but this is really propaganda.

The reality is most people go a little bit crazy and paranoid in these situation. Understandably.

For example, friendly fires have always been very much under reported. Can you imagine what it lead too when an army is already a bit suspicious of each other?

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