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OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

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Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#901
post #305

OpenAI is basically just Netscape at this point. An innovative product with no means of significant revenue generation. One one side it's up against large competitors with an already established user base and product line that can simply bundle their AI offerings into those products. Google will do just what Microsoft did with Internet Explorer and bundle Gemini in for 'Free' with their already other profitable produ…

It would be funny if OpenAI turns for-profit, faceplants, and then finds new life (as Mozilla did) as a non-profit sharing its tools for free.

At least they wouldn't have to change their name!

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#902
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NME at all - 5.1 codex has been the best by far.

How can you stand the excruciating slowness? Claude Code is running circles around codex. The most mundane tasks make it think for a minute before doing anything.

i workshop a detailed outline w it first, and once i'm happy w the plan/outline, i let it run while i go do something else

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to imagine they are all on the lookout for CSAM. They’d simply have to be. If it goes beyond that then let me know.

There is no evidence that any storage service that offers E2E encryption does any scanning of adult content. Note that possessing significant adult content in non-E2E storage risks eventual misclassification by a bot.

Oh is Google Drive not E2E? I don’t really use it (or store large files like video on any of them) so I never looked into it.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidence that any storage service that offers E2E encryption does any scanning of adult content. Note that possessing significant adult content in non-E2E storage risks eventual misclassification by a bot.

Oh is Google Drive not E2E? I don’t really use it (or store large files like video on any of them) so I never looked into it.

[dead]

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#905
post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not selling a service, they're selling access to a service. You can access a more or less equivalent service from multiple companies. The value of an LLM isn't an LLM. That's entirely 100% fungible. The value is exclusively what it produces. If other people can produce the same thing, your LLM value approaches 0.

They sell a product, not a model. ChatGPT is a product, GPT5 is a technology. If you hope that ChatGPT will be worthless because the underlying technology will commodify, then you are naive and will be disappointed. If that logic made sense, why has it never happened before? Servers and computers have been commodified for decades! Salesforce is just a database, social media is just a relational database, Uber is just…

The underlying technology already is commodified - there are many, many other models that are extremely competitive.

The problem is: suppose Google has an equivalent model (they do, but if you disagree, just pretend). Suppose they do. What then is OpenAI offering that makes its product more intriguing? Nothing. They have a chat interface. An intern can make a chat interface.

> ChatGPT is the fifth most visited website in the world!

To me, this is absolutely worthless information. That DOES NOT mean that ChatGPT is in the clear and nobody else will overtake them.

Your analogies really paint the picture here aptly. Salesforce is not just a database, it's a lot of stuff on top of it. AWS is not just a server, it's a lot of stuff on top of it. Uber is not just a GPS wrapper, it's a taxi service. That's a different thing.

ChatGPT... is just a model. What they add on top approaches zero. Because that's just how the technology works. It takes text and gives it to a model and then spits out the output. What more can you add onto that system, removing the model? Make it easier to input text? Make it easier to get output? Well that's truly trivial to do, and I would argue ChatGPT isn't even in the top 10 when it comes to that. Today.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right, but casual users aren't paying (and won't ever)

Users aren't paying for Google or Facebook either. Advertisers do.

Right, again, even if you take every advertiser in the world and shove them in a dungeon and then point a cannon at them and say "give me all the money you have", you won't even have 1/10th the money you need.

Everyone is vastly, vastly overestimating advertising. Advertising is a side hustle, because the product is the main hustle.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#907
post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an insane brand means literally nothing if people can trivially switch to competitors, which they can. There isn't even a tenth of enough money if you group together all of advertising. Like, the entire industry. Ads is a bad, bad plan that wont work. Advertising is also extremely overvalued. And even at it's overvalued price tag, it's nowhere near enough.

People could trivially switch their search engine to Bing or Yahoo, but they don't. If ads are so overpriced, how big is your short position on google? Also ads are extremely inefficient in terms of conversion. Ads rendered by an intelligent, personalized system will be OOM more efficient, negating most of the "overvalue". I'm not saying they should serve ads. It's a terrible strategy for other reasons.

> People could trivially switch their search engine to Bing or Yahoo, but they don't.

Well those are obviously worse products.

> If ads are so overpriced, how big is your short position on google?

I hate hearing this stupid, stupid line.

Most companies are run by neanderthals with more money than brains. Companies burn money on advertising because why not? Making your product better is hard and takes time, advertising is the easiest thing you can do. Does it work? Not really, no, but you get extra business for as close to zero effort you can possibly get. Hit a wall? Just advertise more!

> Ads rendered by an intelligent, personalized system will be OOM more efficient, negating most of the "overvalue".

This is exactly what people said about personalized ads. "No you don't understand! It's not like a billboard!"

And that's true, but consumers are not fucking braindead, and there's also the laws of economics. If I have 50 bucks, I'm not spending 20 fucking dollars on your dumbass paint, no matter how much you advertise it. And that's not a me thing, that's a consumer thing. You can spend 1 quadrillion dollars advertising ferraris and guess what - you will STILL quickly saturate that market and hit a hard ceiling. Because consumer's can't afford it.

And that's not even touching on the fact that most of the metrics around advertisements are just obviously bullshit. How many human eyeballs are actually on ads? Much, much less than everyone thinks.

Yes, sure, we can build highly personalized ads. Whatever. But at the end of the day, consumers still have the exact same amount of disposable income as before. We have created Z E R O value, what we have done is consolidated it.

Hmm, what happens when markets consolidate too much? Well, I guess that would mean advertising becomes completely worthless, wouldn't it? What a conundrum! It's a good thing our markets haven't been consolidating for the past 70 years...

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#908

The real code red here is less that Google just one-upped OpenAI but that they demonstrated there’s no moat to be had here. Absent a major breakthrough all the major providers are just going to keep leapfrogging each other in the most expensive race to the bottom of all time. Good for tech, but a horrible business and financial picture for these companies.

> Good for tech, but a horrible business and financial picture for these companies.

That’s not a bubble at all is it?

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#909

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Google, Meta, Amazon, etc... can't do software? It's the bread and butter of these companies. The CUDA moat is important to hold off the likes of AMD, but hardware like TPUs for internal use or other big software makers is not a big hurdle. Of course Huang will lean on the software being key because he sees the hardware competition catching up.

If CUDA were as trivial to replicate as you say then Nvidia wouldn’t be what it is today.

CUDA is not hard to replicate, but the network effects make it very hard to break trough with new product. Just like with everything when network effeft applies.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#910
post #900
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW the selling $1 for $0.2 is widely applied to any business that is selling goods below cost. For example: free shipping at Amazon does not have resale value and is not obviously fungible, but everyone understands they are eating a cost that otherwise would be borne by their customers. The suggestion is that OpenAI is doing similar, though it is harder to tease out because their books are opaque.

Can you explain why Amazon eats the cost of shipping? Are they like the "First CityWide Change Bank"? How do they make money? Answer: Volume.

They don't eat all of it anymore, even for Prime members. To the extent they do, it's largely to reduce friction for what is still a purchase that will generally take longer to arrive than going to the store. Plus, it's a nice perk that makes you feel like you're getting a deal.

As for profits, I haven't looked recently, but IIRC profits are mostly:

1. AWS

2. Prime membership fees

The latter drives loyalty and therefore volume and predictability, which allows Amazon to e.g. operate their own mini-UPS in the quest to make money on most parcels. They also rolled back free shipping on everything over the years and use it more surgically and with minimum order sizes.

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