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OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

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Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#541

Post by computerthings »

kristianp wrote: post #531
danielodievich wrote: post #469

Last week there we had a customer request that landed in our support on a feature that I partially wrote and wrote a pile of public documentation on. Support engineer ran customer query through Claude (trained on our public and internal docs) and it very, very confidently made a bunch of stuff up in the response. It was quite plausible sounding and it would have been great if it worked that way, but it didn't. While…

How is that comment relevant to this story about OpenAI's response to perceptions that Google has gained in market share?

[dead]

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#542

Post by rprend »

array_key_first wrote: post #519
postflopclarity wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

very clever! I hadn't seen anybody make this point before in any of these threads /s obviously the nature of OpenAIs revenue is very different than selling $1 for $0.2 because their customers are buying an actual service, not anything with resale value or obviously fungible for $

They're not selling a service, they're selling access to a service. You can access a more or less equivalent service from multiple companies. The value of an LLM isn't an LLM. That's entirely 100% fungible. The value is exclusively what it produces. If other people can produce the same thing, your LLM value approaches 0.

They sell a product, not a model. ChatGPT is a product, GPT5 is a technology.

If you hope that ChatGPT will be worthless because the underlying technology will commodify, then you are naive and will be disappointed.

If that logic made sense, why has it never happened before? Servers and computers have been commodified for decades! Salesforce is just a database, social media is just a relational database, Uber is just a GPS wrapper, AWS is just a server.

People pay money, setup subscriptions, and download apps to solve a problem, and once they solve that problem they rarely switch. ChatGPT is the fifth most visited website in the world! Facebook and Deepseek making opensource models means you can make your own ChatGPT, just like you can make your own Google, and nobody will use it, just like nobody uses the dozens of “better” search engines out there.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#543

Post by varenc »

kristianp wrote: post #531
danielodievich wrote: post #469

Last week there we had a customer request that landed in our support on a feature that I partially wrote and wrote a pile of public documentation on. Support engineer ran customer query through Claude (trained on our public and internal docs) and it very, very confidently made a bunch of stuff up in the response. It was quite plausible sounding and it would have been great if it worked that way, but it didn't. While…

How is that comment relevant to this story about OpenAI's response to perceptions that Google has gained in market share?

Popular HN threads about anything AI related always attract stories highlighting AI failures. It's such a common pattern I want to analyze it and get numbers. (which might require AI...)

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#544

Post by raincole »

kristianp wrote: post #531
danielodievich wrote: post #469

Last week there we had a customer request that landed in our support on a feature that I partially wrote and wrote a pile of public documentation on. Support engineer ran customer query through Claude (trained on our public and internal docs) and it very, very confidently made a bunch of stuff up in the response. It was quite plausible sounding and it would have been great if it worked that way, but it didn't. While…

How is that comment relevant to this story about OpenAI's response to perceptions that Google has gained in market share?

Welcome to Hacker News. You're allowed to post anti-AI, anti-Google or anti-Musk content in any thread. /s

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#546

Post by atonse »

steveBK123 wrote: post #314
bgirard wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fun trope to repeat but that's not what OpenAI is doing. I get a ton of value from ChatGPT and Codex from my subscription. As long as the inference is not done at a lost this analogy doesn't hold. They're not paying me to use it. They are generating output that is very valuable to me. Much more than my subscription cost. I've been able to help setup cross app automation for my partner's business, remodel my ho…

If the subscription cost 5x as much would you still pay and feel you are getting such a great value?

I pay $100/month for Claude Max, and I've already said it, I would go up to $500 a month and wouldn't hesitate for a second. I'd probably start to hesitate for $1,000 maybe, only cuz I know I wouldn't be able to use it enough to maximize that value. But I might still suck it up and pay for it (I don't use it enough yet to need the $200/month but if I started hitting limits faster, I would upgrade), or at that point start looking for alternatives.

It's worth that much to me in the time saved. But I'm a business owner, so I think the calculus might be quite different (since I can find ways to recoup those costs) from an individual, who pays out of their main income.

I outlined examples of how I used CC/AI a couple months ago [1]. Since then I've used it even more, to help reduce our cloud bills.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45382337

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#547

Post by mingodad »

jdoliner wrote: post #274

I've seen a rumor going around that OpenAI hasn't had a successful pre-training run since mid 2024. This seemed insane to me but if you give ChatGPT 5.1 a query about current events and instruct it not to use the internet it will tell you its knowledge cutoff is June 2024. Not sure if maybe that's just the smaller model or what. But I don't think it's a good sign to get that from any frontier model today, that's 18 m…

Interesting enough today I found that https://huggingface.co/openai/gpt-oss-20b when downloaded an running locally and asked:

====

when have you been built?

I’m a GPT‑4‑based model that OpenAI released on March 14 2023. The underlying training data goes up to early 2023, and the model was trained in the months leading up to that release. If you’re asking about the ChatGPT product that ships the model to users, it went live in November 2022 and has since received updates (GPT‑3.5, GPT‑4, etc.) that keep it current.

====

But when supposedly running it from https://huggingface.co/chat/models/openai/gpt-oss-20b:

====

when have you been built?

I’m a language model created by OpenAI. The current generation (GPT‑4) that powers this chat was first released in March 2023 and has been updated and fine‑tuned up through the end of 2024. My training data runs up to the beginning of June 2025, so I’m built on knowledge available up to that point.

====

And that makes me thinking that although https://huggingface.co/chat claims to be using the models available to public at https://huggingface.co , it doesn't seems to be true and I raised this question here https://huggingface.co/ggml-org/gpt-oss-20b-GGUF/discussions... , https://github.com/huggingface/inference-playground/issues/1... and https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/discussions/15396#disc... .

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#549

Post by cush »

bgirard wrote: post #290
stack_framer wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can generate $20 billion in ARR this year too! I just need you to give me $100 billion and allow me to sell each of your dollars for 0.2 dollars.

It's a fun trope to repeat but that's not what OpenAI is doing. I get a ton of value from ChatGPT and Codex from my subscription. As long as the inference is not done at a lost this analogy doesn't hold. They're not paying me to use it. They are generating output that is very valuable to me. Much more than my subscription cost. I've been able to help setup cross app automation for my partner's business, remodel my ho…

> I get a ton of value from ChatGPT and Codex from my subscription

I think that’s what they’re saying. OpenAI is selling you a $1 product for $0.2

Tokens are too cheap right now and nobody is working on a path to dial up the cost

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#550

Post by mvkel »

jdoliner wrote: post #274

I've seen a rumor going around that OpenAI hasn't had a successful pre-training run since mid 2024. This seemed insane to me but if you give ChatGPT 5.1 a query about current events and instruct it not to use the internet it will tell you its knowledge cutoff is June 2024. Not sure if maybe that's just the smaller model or what. But I don't think it's a good sign to get that from any frontier model today, that's 18 m…

It's not a rumor, it's confirmed by OpenAI. All "models" since 4o are actually just optimizations in prompting and a new routing engine. The actual -model- you are using with 5.1 is 4. Nothing has been pre-trained from scratch since 4o.

Their own press releases confirm this. They call 5 their best new "ai system", not a new model

https://openai.com/index/introducing-gpt-5/

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