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Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

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Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#101

Post by jrowen »

potato3732842 wrote: post #85
jrowen wrote: post #61

I was watching a clip from the The Lost World (1925) [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chwzrwHnCtk ] the other day. I was struck by the silly (to my ears) orchestral fanfare scoring such a dramatic scene, and the fact that almost all of the men are wearing nearly identical outfits. It's still pretty much the same 20 years later in this video. The timbre of the voice of the narrator is another thing, so universal in m…

Their outfits aren't nearly identical, they only look that way to us because we weren't there and don't know the details. It's no different than how classic cars all look close to the same but someone who was there can just tell you at first glance "that one's a , that one's the top trim, and so on".

Definitely but would you disagree that there is homogeneity to it that would be out of place in say a NYC street scene today? Look up pictures of Straw Hat Day. Just interesting to me given the wide world of fashion choices and styles that developed soon after.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#102

Post by 30minAdayHN »

potato3732842 wrote: post #90

The real disservice of this sort of this sort of stuff is how flagrantly obvious they make the bad guy. Yeah, everyone can identify the idiot spouting off about skin color and engaging in an un-obfuscated textbook exercise in divide and conquer as probably not worth listening to. Patting yourself on the back becase you can identify it when it's flagrantly obvious is counterproductive. The guy in the internet comment…

I completely agree with you. Though slightly tangential, what you called out also happens in startups and is a big learning for me. I wanted to fail fast. I thought I got it when read in a blog or a book. Similarly, building an MVP - feels amazing and I thought I understood it. Like you called out, many of the books, blogs or podcasts will present them in a flagrantly obvious way. As a reader, we often think that we understood it.

But in reality, these are very subtle. Understanding that what you are experiencing is a failure or what you are building is feature bloat is extremely hard. These aren't obvious moments. I call these micro signals. The skill is in fact developing the thinking muscle to pick on these micro signals and act on them.

Probably most of the "self help" fall in this category - very obvious when reading, but will fail to identify in reality. Internalizing is about understanding how these would manifest in reality (and be aware that these will be very very tiny signals)

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#103

Post by softgrow »

neilv wrote: post #23

I love that this was US propaganda at one point. The US always has failings, but this message is something we can be proud of.

I watched the film and was surprised when it moved on from gambling and scams. Initially thought it was aimed at avoiding being scammed of your hard earned cash by shysters. I wonder if there is a film produced at the time about that?

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#104

Post by nucleogenesis »

cortesoft wrote: post #95
cardanome wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is literally propaganda. Very good propaganda with a very good and truthful message. (Except maybe a bit of too much idealizing the US and also the role of the catholic church but the main point is fine.) I guess the confusion is because in Western societies people are used to the doublespeak of only calling something propaganda when it is done by the "other side". The other side is "spreading the narrative" you a…

Well, the standard definition of propaganda is that it is false and misleading : > information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a particular cause, doctrine, or point of view. Which I think most people consider bad. If the information is true and not misleading, it would be considered educational or informational.

> *biased* or misleading

The bias is what would make somebody consider some propaganda good and others bad.

Like - anti-fascist propaganda is good because it’s biased against an anti-human and oppressive ideology.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#106

Post by jrowen »

quuxplusone wrote: post #91
jrowen wrote: post #61

I was watching a clip from the The Lost World (1925) [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chwzrwHnCtk ] the other day. I was struck by the silly (to my ears) orchestral fanfare scoring such a dramatic scene, and the fact that almost all of the men are wearing nearly identical outfits. It's still pretty much the same 20 years later in this video. The timbre of the voice of the narrator is another thing, so universal in m…

Note that the orchestral score on that YouTube video was composed in 2016 by Robert Israel. The original film had no recorded sound; it would have been accompanied on the piano (or, if lucky, pipe organ). If you get a chance to see a silent film in the theater with live music, don't pass up that chance! I recently went to see "The General" (1926) with semi-improvised music by pianist Ben Model,[1] and (obviously) rec…

That is interesting that it was actually composed recently, of course he was going for period-accurate and that seems to be his thing. But it's just fascinating to me, the sort of social norms around, and the mood or feelings that are evoked by, that kind of music, compared to a modern "serious" monster movie like Cloverfield or something (of course silent vs. talkie is a bit apples-to-oranges but it just feels culturally worlds apart even though they're kind of going for the same thing).

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#107

Post by yes_really »

mempko wrote: post #7

This is important for everyone here to watch. A divided house does not stand, and if you haven't noticed, it's getting more divided every day. Don't be a sucker, don't let them divide us. For perspective, we now have masked agents roaming the streets kidnapping people in broad daylight. In the United States. Think about how fast this came. EDIT: Why not have a conversation instead of downvoting. What did I say is wro…

This type of comment is what is increasing division and extremism in the US.

The people defined immigration laws through democracy. Following democracy means following the immigration laws that were defined through democracy, not following what you'd like the law to be.

The opposition of "Rule of Law" is "Rule of Men". If we don't follow the immigration laws defined democratically, it means, by definition, that we would be following some other rules defined arbitrarily by rulers outside of the democratic process. That is very dangerous, because following the democratically defined laws is the Schelling point that typically maintains cohesion of a polity. What incentives do your political opponents have for maintaining cohesion if you simply defect on your theoretical obligations to follow the law that was voted on? Can you really say that doing that would not create more and more division?

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#109

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

MBCook wrote: post #76
113 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's massively overtly nationalist for one. There's a hilarious sequence at the beginning that's just shots of American industry and agriculture.

Are there governments that aren’t heavily nationalistic in wartime?

Not for long.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#110

Post by beloch »

potato3732842 wrote: post #90

The real disservice of this sort of this sort of stuff is how flagrantly obvious they make the bad guy. Yeah, everyone can identify the idiot spouting off about skin color and engaging in an un-obfuscated textbook exercise in divide and conquer as probably not worth listening to. Patting yourself on the back becase you can identify it when it's flagrantly obvious is counterproductive. The guy in the internet comment…

The problem is that people are still falling for exactly the same sort of comic-book evil even though it's every bit as obvious. e.g. Haitian's eating dogs, illegal immigrants scamming medical services, stealing high-paying jobs, etc..

A high percentage of people completely lack what Carl Sagan would call a "Baloney detection kit", and the current purveyors of baloney like it that way. That's why they're anti-science and anti-education.

I suspect we're seeing WWII anti-Nazi propaganda being promoted all over social media in an attempt to shock people into a moment of introspection. Someone watching this propaganda piece today doesn't even have to make substitutions. The man on a street-corner ranting about immigrants could be a talking head on certain current "news" programs. However, the shock relies on the viewer's perception of Nazi's as irredeemably evil.

Humans forget, and that happens pretty reliably when something passes out of living memory. There are precious few people left with first-hand memories of Nazi evil or who can remember fighting Hitler. For most living people, Nazi's are just comic-book and Hollywood villains. Comparing oneself to the people in this propaganda reel today undoubtedly has less impact than it did fifty years ago, and that impact will continue to fade. Society in certain countries is now clearly at the stage where painful lessons need to be relearned.

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