How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized • Hacker News Board

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#461

Post by jiggawatts » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:02 PM UTC

jameshilliard wrote: post #224

tsimionescu wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing 736 Israeli civilians, 79 foreign nationals, and 379 Israeli military and security personnel, and kidnapping an additional 250 civilians is not, by any fathomable definition, genocide. It is a war crime for sure, but it's not genocide. Edit: the post I was replying to was claiming Hamas/the Palestinians perpetrated a genocide in Israel. It has since been edited to be a completely different thing.

> Killing 736 Israeli civilians, 79 foreign nationals, and 379 Israeli military and security personnel, and kidnapping an additional 250 civilians is not, by any fathomable definition, genocide. It is a war crime for sure, but it's not genocide. I think the evidence is quite overwhelming that Hamas had clear genocidal intent, even if they did not have the means to accomplish that intent.

Something I try to explain to people is that HAMAS tries to kill civilians, but fails at achieving their goals, meanwhile Israel tries to avoid killing civilians, but fails to achieve that goal.

One of these is better than the other.

Weirdly, many people disagree over which one that is.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#462

Post by HDThoreaun » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:03 PM UTC

chollida1 wrote: post #235

starik36 wrote: post #97

* * *

I can't believe I'm weighing in on a political thread, but the "deal" is very one sided. It offers very little for the Palestinians in terms of creating their own country and ability to self govern and gives Israel pretty much everything they want including some control over Palestine. The current "peace deal" is terrible for the Palestinians. No other country would sign it either.

Well the palestinians shouldnt have launched a terrorist attack if they wanted a good deal. Now their choices are bad deal or genocide

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#463

Post by C6JEsQeQa5fCjE » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:03 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #383

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now. Why would you assume that being able to escape with their lives is suddenly more important to them?

> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now Hamas has. If you put this deal to a plebescite in Gaza, do you really think they'd vote for more war?

Yes, Hamas (and all the other resistance factions that are active in Gaza). The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" My answer was perfectly within the scope of the original question.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#464

Post by dlubarov » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:03 PM UTC

phgn wrote: post #439

m101 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers are just false. Even the Hamas numbers are 10x less than this!

Who is left in Gaza to count or report all the dead? The people who die of famine? Official numbers have increased by less than 20.000 in the last year of genocide. Isn't that curious?

It's not as if Hamas is only counting hospital/morgue records. There's a Google form where any Gazan can report a casualty.

The drop is to be expected, since the fighting was much more intense in earlier phases of the war.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#465

Post by phgn » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:05 PM UTC

m101 wrote: post #432

phgn wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mhh, what if we let enough food into Gaza so that everyone can survive? Why would Hamas have any reason to steal food then?

Did you know that the population of Gaza has actually increased since the start of the conflict?

Could you please link a source for that piece of information?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#466

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:06 PM UTC

phgn wrote: post #420

moogly wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sent by whom? Also, the Israeli government cannot be trusted. Their whole strategy since 1948 has been about distracting the Palestinians with fake peace processes that were never meant to lead to anything. (see the book "The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine")

> Their whole strategy since 1948 has been about distracting the Palestinians with fake peace processes that were never meant to lead to anything

Totally untrue. Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza in 2005 [1]. The current divides aren't as entrenched as the belligerents would have us believe.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the...

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#467

Post by screye » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:06 PM UTC

phgn wrote: post #409

Two numbers on the effectiveness of that strategy: 680.000 and 380.000. The total number of Palestinians murdered, and the number of those who were kids under 5 years old. source: https://arena.org.au/politics-of-counting-gazas-dead/

I haven't seen any numbers exceeding 100k. Where did you get 600k from ?

the article is taking projections and applying multiple extrapolations to them. It is a bad estimate.

The current estimates are between 53000 - 66000. About 10x lower than what you propose.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#468

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:07 PM UTC

Hikikomori wrote: post #360

JamesAdir wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Maybe you missed it but Hamas are terrorists, they don't care that much. Hamas mistake was believing that Israel would care more about civilians, turns out they care much less. And Israel is supposedly this western democracy.

> Hamas mistake was believing that Israel would care more about civilians, turns out they care much less. And Israel is supposedly this western democracy

Let's be honest, betting on civilian shields when attacking any country, including a democracy, has never been a winning move.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#469

Post by C6JEsQeQa5fCjE » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:07 PM UTC

oytis wrote: post #355

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now. Why would you assume that being able to escape with their lives is suddenly more important to them?

I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me - Nazis didn't enjoy the same privilege

> I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine?

And then what? Look at the West Bank to see what happens when you don't resist the occupation and fully cooperate with the colonial state. You get slowly cleansed anyway.

> Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me

Israel specializes in assassinations and has a history of relentlessly pursuing those it deems its enemies. If you were a Hamas fighter, your choice would be to either die fighting for a purpose, or be killed in exile without a purpose anymore.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#470

Post by tguvot » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:07 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #347

SilverElfin wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not been under a “blockade” for even a year continuously. Literally earlier this year, hundreds of trucks carrying aid were allowed in per day . That was during the ceasefire that didn’t last. If you go back to the history of blockades of Gaza you’ll see it was very intermittent. And when things were tightened, it was in response to incidents like Hamas rocket attacks.

The requirement is about five hundred trucks per day of food (so each truck feeding about four thousand people). The fact that on rare occasions they'd let in about half that isn't really a point in your favor.

un own statistics site https://www.ochaopt.org/data/crossings

food tracks fluctuate between 2000 and 3000 a month prior to oct 7th. a few more dozens of of tracks with "non-edible consumables" and "medical supplies". rest of tracks are construction materials