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The Framework Desktop is a beast

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Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#381

Post by yencabulator »

geerlingguy wrote: post #364
yencabulator wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The RAM is split between CPU and GPU at a user-configurable ratio. I believe the fixed split thing is a historical remnant. These days, the OS can allocate memory for the GPU to use on the fly.

Indeed it can be reallocated, needs a reboot though. I've gotten up to around 110 GB before running into OOM issues. I set it at 108 GB to provide a little headroom: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2025/increasing-vram-alloc...

No need for a reboot, echo 9999 >/sys/module/ttm/parameters/pages_limit

You're talking about an allocator policy for when to allow GTT and when not, not the old firmware-level VRAM split thing where whatever size the BIOS sets for VRAM is permanently away from the CPU. The max GTT limit is there to decrease accidental footguns, it's not a technological limitation; at least earlier the default policy was to reserve 1/4 of RAM for non-GPU use, and 1/4*128 GB=32GB is more than enough so you're looking to adjust the policy. It's just an if statement in the kernel, GTT the mechanism doesn't limit it, and deallocating a chunk of memory used by the GPU returns it to the general kernel memory pool, where it can next be used by the CPU again.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#382

Post by goosedragons »

bestham wrote: post #289
lucb1e wrote: post #242

> The Framework Desktop with 64GB RAM + 2TB NVMe is $1,876. To get a Mac Studio with similar specs [...] you'll literally spend nearly twice as much [...] The Framework Desktop is simply a great deal. Wow, someone managed to beat Apple on price?? I don't know that it logically follows that anything is a great deal when it undercuts Apple. Half sounds about right -- I thought Apple was a bit more competitive these day…

The point is that before the AMD Ryzen Al Max+ 395 chip there was only Apple that offered something comparable for the desktop / laptop that could do these AI relate tasks. Were else could you find a GPU with 64-128 memory?

Not as good but there's loads of devices with the Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 with 64-128GB of RAM.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#383

Post by michelsedgh »

dijit wrote: post #293
scosman wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's comparing to a studio when he should compare to the mini for this performance. They are almost the same price at a 64gb RAM + 500gb storage config (CAD). - Framework, Max+ 64GB: $2,861.16 - Apple Mini M4 Pro, 64GB: $2,899.00 Apple does charge way too much for integrated storage, but Apple is only a 25% premium at 2TB not double (if you compare to the mini instead of the studio). Plug in a NVMe SSD if you're buil…

Not to defend Apple here, but it's also a bit apples to oranges (heh) because the power consumption is not easily comparable. I would hazard a guess and say: at that spec, if you're looking at 1Y TCO, the Apple could easily be cost competitive performance per dollar. Since they're in spitting distance of each other, just get the one you're most comfortable with. Personally I prefer Linux and I'm really happy that non…

Also the size difference

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#384

Post by syphia »

> The Framework Desktop with 64GB RAM + 2TB NVMe is $1,876

And it's ~$1000 to build a PC with a similar CPU, somewhat larger form factor, and fans. Unless the AI processor is actually useful for AI, and you need that, this is silly.

Framework desktop dimensions are 20.6 x 9.7 x 22.6 LWH. My IM01 case is 37.2 x 18.5 x 28.7. It won't be going in my bag, but it fits nicely on a desktop.

Pre-builts are so expensive these days...

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#385

Post by jeffbee »

fmajid wrote: post #82

I cancelled my Framework Desktop order and ordered a HP Z2 Mini G1a instead, the goal being to replace my Mac Studio as I've had it with Apple's arrogance and lousy software quality. The HP is much smaller, has ECC RAM and 10G Ethernet. Significantly more expensive, however.

It is also, unfortunately, insanely loud.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#386

Post by bketelsen »

porphyra wrote: post #334
oblio wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How quiet is the Minisforum?

I'm not sure, but you could always just buy the Minisforum BD790i X3D [1]. Then, you'd be able to choose your own fan and case, and you can make it arbitrarily quiet by selecting a good fan. Early BD790i boards had a bug where losing power causes it to reset all BIOS settings, but they fixed that in later batches. I wonder when they will come out with a 9955HX version. Another good thing about this board is that it h…

I did exactly this, put it in a 2U case. Fantastic performance, but even with the best Noctua I could put on it the CPU fan sounds like a Hawker Harrier doing VTOL when it's under load. Don't regret the board, but wish my rack was in another room now.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#387

Post by obmelvin »

ajross wrote: post #348
dijit wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to defend Apple here, but it's also a bit apples to oranges (heh) because the power consumption is not easily comparable. I would hazard a guess and say: at that spec, if you're looking at 1Y TCO, the Apple could easily be cost competitive performance per dollar. Since they're in spitting distance of each other, just get the one you're most comfortable with. Personally I prefer Linux and I'm really happy that non…

> if you're looking at 1Y TCO, the Apple could easily be cost competitive performance per dollar. Only if you're buying artesinal single source electricity sustainably sourced from trained dolphins. Average US electrical power is $.18/kWh per google. Figure the desktop draws 300W continuous (which it almost certainly can't), and that's 0.3 kW * 24 hr/day * 365.2425 days/yr == $473/year. So even if the mac was complet…

During peak hours (4-9pm daily) in San Diego you can be paying nearly $1/kWh (generation + transmission cost) to SDGE, so at least in certain areas, the running cost is very much relevant even for consumers.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#388

Post by yencabulator »

geerlingguy wrote: post #364
yencabulator wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The RAM is split between CPU and GPU at a user-configurable ratio. I believe the fixed split thing is a historical remnant. These days, the OS can allocate memory for the GPU to use on the fly.

Indeed it can be reallocated, needs a reboot though. I've gotten up to around 110 GB before running into OOM issues. I set it at 108 GB to provide a little headroom: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2025/increasing-vram-alloc...

Also, from your link:

> It seems like tools will have to adapt to dynamic VRAM allocation, as none of the monitoring tools I've tested assume VRAM can be increased on the fly.

amdgpu_top shows VRAM (the old fixed thing) and GTT (dynamic) separately.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#389

Post by khuey »

syphia wrote: post #384

> The Framework Desktop with 64GB RAM + 2TB NVMe is $1,876 And it's ~$1000 to build a PC with a similar CPU, somewhat larger form factor, and fans. Unless the AI processor is actually useful for AI, and you need that, this is silly. Framework desktop dimensions are 20.6 x 9.7 x 22.6 LWH. My IM01 case is 37.2 x 18.5 x 28.7. It won't be going in my bag, but it fits nicely on a desktop. Pre-builts are so expensive these…

The upcharge for decent specs, especially on RAM, is insane. I just checked Dell and upgrading from the base 16GB of RAM to 64GB of RAM on their generic tower costs $450. You can buy 2x32GB DIMMs of the same speed for less than half of that.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#390

Post by ivape »

heavyset_go wrote: post #375
ivape wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LPDDR5, it looks like this is the only ram type that is going to work with Ryzen AI chips.

Framework offers Ryzen AI laptops with replaceable memory.

That ram is slower than soldered down lpddr5 at the moment.
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