Oh, to be young again and care about benchmarks, bogomips and stuff like that.
Note that the main benchmark in the post is practical. How long a test suite for the product he makes runs.
The Framework Desktop is a beast
81–90 of 464 posts
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#82I cancelled my Framework Desktop order and ordered a HP Z2 Mini G1a instead, the goal being to replace my Mac Studio as I've had it with Apple's arrogance and lousy software quality. The HP is much smaller, has ECC RAM and 10G Ethernet. Significantly more expensive, however.
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have been continuously baffled by the people that think that soldered on RAM is somehow "throwaway". My last desktop build is eight years old and I have never upgraded the ram. Never will. My next build will have an entirely new motherboard, ram, and GPU, and the last set will end up at the ewaste recycler, because who could I find that wants that old hardware? Soldered RAM, CPU, and GPU, that give space benefits a…
>I have been continuously baffled by the people that think that soldered on RAM is somehow "throwaway" One of the primary objections to soldered RAM was/is the cost to purchase. As the likes of Apple priced Ram upgrade at a hefty premium to retail prices.
I can see that objection too, and it seems far more reasonable than assuming that soldered RAM automatically means a reduced lifespan machine.
But are Framework's RAM prices unreasonable? $400 for 64GB more of LPDDR5x seems OK. I haven't seen anybody object to Framework's RAM on those grounds.
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And even more curious It's easy to find out the reason for this. And the article's benchmarks confirm the validity of this reason. Why comment from a place of ignorance, unless you're asking a question?
Your comment is unnecessarily hostile. There are plenty of components to choose from which do not need soldered-on RAM. Giving up modularity to gain access to higher memory bandwidth is certainly a trafeoff many are willing to make, but to take that tradeoff as a company known for modularity is, as the parent comment put it, curious.
Every single description of the Framework desktop that I've seen has addressed this issue. To comment as though it's some sort of mystery is disingenuous at best. My comment was precisely as friendly as the commenter deserved.
And as I said, if you read the article, you'll see that the tradeoff in question has paid off very well.
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#85> In some ways, the Framework Desktop is a curious machine. Desktop PCs are already very user-repairable! So why is Framework even bringing their talents to this domain? In the laptop realm, they're basically alone with that concept, but in the desktop space, it's rather crowded already. Yet it somehow still makes sense. And even more curious, Framework Desktop is deliberately less repairable than their laptops. They…
The RAM is soldered on all Halo Strix platforms because physics is getting in the way. With pluggable DIMMs the memory bandwidth would be halved, at best.
I wonder if there were similar complaints when cache moved from motherboards to soldered on the cpu package.
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well they chose to use this hardware platform. It all sounds like market segmentation to me, now that AMD is on top.
To be clear, AMD is giving you 2x the bandwidth of competing chips and you're complaining that it isn't 4x.
My complaints are the maximum RAM of the system and the modularity of the RAM.
With an increased number of channels, you could have a greater amount of RAM at a lower frequency but at the same bandwidth. So you would at least be able to run some of these much larger AI models.
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not everybody upgrades RAM, and those people deserve computers too. No. It's end of the line with consumerism and we either start repairing and recycling or we die. Framework catered to people who agree with that, and this product is not in line. I have no idea why you would not upgrade your memory, I have done so in all PCs I ever owned and all laptops, and it's a very common (and cheap) upgrade. It reduces waste…
I have had the system for eight years and at no point would upgrading RAM have increased performance. Upgrading the RAM would have created more waste than properly sizing the RAM to COU proportion from the beginning. It is very odd to encounter someone who has such a narrow view of computing that they cannot imagine someone not upgrading their RAM. I have not once, literally not once have RAM break either. I have bee…
> It is very odd to encounter someone who has such a narrow view of computing that they cannot imagine someone not upgrading their RAM.
Uncalled for and means the end of the discussion after this reaction. Ofc I can imagine that, it's just usually a dumb decision.
That you did not have to upgrade the ram means one of two things: You either had completely linear workloads, so unlike me did not switch to a compiled programming language or experimented with local LLMs etc. Or you bought a lot of ram in the beginning, so 8 years ago with a hefty premium.
Changes nothing about the fundamental disagreement with the existence of such machines. Especially from a company that knows better. I do not expect ethical behaviour from a bottom of the barrel company like Apple, but it was completely reasonable to expect better from framework.
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
The RAM is soldered on all Halo Strix platforms because physics is getting in the way. With pluggable DIMMs the memory bandwidth would be halved, at best.
I wonder if there were similar complaints when cache moved from motherboards to soldered on the cpu package.
The difference in performance between DRAM and flash memory is far greater than SRAM and DRAM. The total RAM of a system is a hard limit on the type of programs you can practically run because swapping is slow.
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I have been continuously baffled by the people that think that soldered on RAM is somehow "throwaway" One of the primary objections to soldered RAM was/is the cost to purchase. As the likes of Apple priced Ram upgrade at a hefty premium to retail prices.
I can see that objection too, and it seems far more reasonable than assuming that soldered RAM automatically means a reduced lifespan machine. But are Framework's RAM prices unreasonable? $400 for 64GB more of LPDDR5x seems OK. I haven't seen anybody object to Framework's RAM on those grounds.
With modular RAM, someone can buy old boards and RAM and use it for high-RAM applications down the line.
Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not make a platform with a greater number of channels
Risk cannabalising sales from their other products? For example Nvidia seek to ban consumer GPU use in datacenters as they to sell datacentre GPUs. If they made consumer platforms that can take 1tb of ram etc, then people may choose to not buy EYPC. Afterall many cloud providers already offer Ryzen VPS's.
my thoughts exactly