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AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

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Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#61

Post by dastbe »

lazide wrote: post #43
skissane wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being "100% subject to European law" doesn't override the parent company's obligations under US law. At best, it creates a legal conflict where AWS must violate either US or EU law. Which one will the US parent company prioritize if/when faced with enforcement actions? IANAL/etc, but the subsidiary and the parent are different people (legal personhood). The US parent is only responsible for the EU subsidiary’s acti…

That is a rather laughable actual protection isn’t it? People do stuff because their bosses tell them too.

At this point, you might as well use no cloud provider because at some point someone may be able to be leveraged? Whether that's by your country, another country, or some other nefarious entity.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#62

Post by blibble »

skissane wrote: post #56
lazide wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, then they replace them with someone with no such insight/scruples. They quit because the company wasn’t going to change ‘the orders’, yes? Eventually they found someone who would do what they were told without quitting, that is how this works.

Right, and then if the US parent company orders EU managers to violate EU law, and when the managers refuse, replaces them with EU managers stupid enough to obey an illegal order - then what happens? The new EU managers get arrested and possibly end up in prison. Worse case scenario for the US parent, is the US parent company is (civilly or criminally) prosecuted under EU (or member state) law for giving the illegal…

> replaces them with EU managers

why would they do that? they'd put a US manager there temporarily

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#64

Post by verelo »

mschuster91 wrote: post #17
verelo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol…try hire someone in Germany. You’ll get it in about 5 minutes. Sincerely, someone in Canada who did this.

Hiring someone in Germany is dead easy (assuming the candidate is an EU/EEA citizen - foreigners from outside the EU/EEA are a nightmare because the immigration authorities are swamped in cases). You hand the candidate a contract, ask for a few informations (e.g. tax identifier code, health insurance code) and your accountant (or, if larger, HR dep't) deals with the rest. The problem is firing someone in Germany, whi…

Well much like I'd say to anyone considering marriage, don't do something you might want to undo later.

So hiring is dead easy, until you think through the commitment you're making - hence, hiring (imo) is far from dead easy to do in Germany.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#65

Post by skissane »

blibble wrote: post #62
skissane wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and then if the US parent company orders EU managers to violate EU law, and when the managers refuse, replaces them with EU managers stupid enough to obey an illegal order - then what happens? The new EU managers get arrested and possibly end up in prison. Worse case scenario for the US parent, is the US parent company is (civilly or criminally) prosecuted under EU (or member state) law for giving the illegal…

> replaces them with EU managers why would they do that? they'd put a US manager there temporarily

That would be illegal. They are offering this service to EU governments (and government contractors) under contractual terms which promise EU management. Replacing the EU management with a US manager would at a minimum be a breach of contract - and since some of these contracts are for sensitive / national security use cases, possibly much more serious legal consequences than just garden variety breach of contract

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#66

Post by crazygringo »

pyrale wrote: post #52
crazygringo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If so, it's subject to the CLOUD act, and therefore, not compatible with EU rules. I'm assuming the CLOUD act is the entire reason why they're explicitly going with European-only staff. That way Amazon can honestly say it has no operational control to violate EU law because there's no American employee they can command. Operational control isn't all-or-nothing. European employees will do whatever Amazon tells them…

> Operational control isn't all-or-nothing. When the US government has no issue asking a company to hand over its tls keys, it really is.

If the company has no keys to hand over, because they gave them to the Europeans, then obviously that's quite a different situation.

The US can ask. That doesn't mean it gets what it wants. The government loses in court all the time.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#69

Post by mdavid626 »

crazygringo wrote: post #26
dabedee wrote: post #9

AWS claims their cloud is "sovereign" and "independent" while remaining owned by a US corp subject to US law (including the CLOUD Act). That's not how sovereignty works. EU citizen operators don't change the fact that the underlying technology, patents, and corporate control remain American. Zero details on pricing, available services, or how they'll handle conflicts between US law and their "sovereignty" promises. F…

> That's not how sovereignty works. Actually, it is. It will operate as a subsidiary company based in Europe. That means it's 100% subject to European law, not American law. And being staffed by Europeans means they are immune to any US legal threats. I.e. the US can't compel a European employee to reveal data under a subpoena the way it could compel American citizens. Amazon remains the owner and controls the techno…

So no backdoors, right? Pinky swear?
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