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AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

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Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#41

Post by ljm »

crazygringo wrote: post #26
dabedee wrote: post #9

AWS claims their cloud is "sovereign" and "independent" while remaining owned by a US corp subject to US law (including the CLOUD Act). That's not how sovereignty works. EU citizen operators don't change the fact that the underlying technology, patents, and corporate control remain American. Zero details on pricing, available services, or how they'll handle conflicts between US law and their "sovereignty" promises. F…

> That's not how sovereignty works. Actually, it is. It will operate as a subsidiary company based in Europe. That means it's 100% subject to European law, not American law. And being staffed by Europeans means they are immune to any US legal threats. I.e. the US can't compel a European employee to reveal data under a subpoena the way it could compel American citizens. Amazon remains the owner and controls the techno…

So Amazon becomes a supranational entity.

You should be ashamed of yourself for shilling for this shit. Curtis Yarvin would be proud.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#42

Post by lazide »

crazygringo wrote: post #39
pyrale wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will operate as a subsidiary company based in Europe. That means it's 100% subject to European law, not American law. As a subsidiary company, does Amazon retain operational control over that branch? If so, it's subject to the CLOUD act, and therefore, not compatible with EU rules. > Amazon remains the owner and controls the technology, yes. So, basically, the answer is that the EU subsidiary is not independent.…

> If so, it's subject to the CLOUD act, and therefore, not compatible with EU rules. I'm assuming the CLOUD act is the entire reason why they're explicitly going with European-only staff. That way Amazon can honestly say it has no operational control to violate EU law because there's no American employee they can command. Operational control isn't all-or-nothing. European employees will do whatever Amazon tells them…

Or they’re attempting to ‘green wash’ something that US parent can definitely actually control, so they have some plausible deniability. It is not even close to the first time something like that has occurred.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#43

Post by lazide »

skissane wrote: post #33
dabedee wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being "100% subject to European law" doesn't override the parent company's obligations under US law. At best, it creates a legal conflict where AWS must violate either US or EU law. Which one will the US parent company prioritize if/when faced with enforcement actions? The only way this would work is if the European operation were truly independent & separately owned, no corporate control from the US. But I don't thi…

> Being "100% subject to European law" doesn't override the parent company's obligations under US law. At best, it creates a legal conflict where AWS must violate either US or EU law. Which one will the US parent company prioritize if/when faced with enforcement actions? IANAL/etc, but the subsidiary and the parent are different people (legal personhood). The US parent is only responsible for the EU subsidiary’s acti…

That is a rather laughable actual protection isn’t it? People do stuff because their bosses tell them too.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#44

Post by robertclaus »

This very much confused me. Isn't the idea behind this movement that Europe doesn't want to be dependent on external companies for critical infrastructure? Won't this just be the equivalent of a shell company completely dependant on Amazon in the US for any future fixes or R&D?

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#45

Post by crazygringo »

lazide wrote: post #43
skissane wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being "100% subject to European law" doesn't override the parent company's obligations under US law. At best, it creates a legal conflict where AWS must violate either US or EU law. Which one will the US parent company prioritize if/when faced with enforcement actions? IANAL/etc, but the subsidiary and the parent are different people (legal personhood). The US parent is only responsible for the EU subsidiary’s acti…

That is a rather laughable actual protection isn’t it? People do stuff because their bosses tell them too.

They generally don't when the boss is safely protected in another country, but you'll go to jail in your own country.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#46

Post by lazide »

crazygringo wrote: post #45
lazide wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a rather laughable actual protection isn’t it? People do stuff because their bosses tell them too.

They generally don't when the boss is safely protected in another country, but you'll go to jail in your own country.

They do all the time. See every mining company, ever.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#47

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #26
dabedee wrote: post #9

AWS claims their cloud is "sovereign" and "independent" while remaining owned by a US corp subject to US law (including the CLOUD Act). That's not how sovereignty works. EU citizen operators don't change the fact that the underlying technology, patents, and corporate control remain American. Zero details on pricing, available services, or how they'll handle conflicts between US law and their "sovereignty" promises. F…

> That's not how sovereignty works. Actually, it is. It will operate as a subsidiary company based in Europe. That means it's 100% subject to European law, not American law. And being staffed by Europeans means they are immune to any US legal threats. I.e. the US can't compel a European employee to reveal data under a subpoena the way it could compel American citizens. Amazon remains the owner and controls the techno…

[deleted]

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#49

Post by skissane »

lazide wrote: post #43
skissane wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being "100% subject to European law" doesn't override the parent company's obligations under US law. At best, it creates a legal conflict where AWS must violate either US or EU law. Which one will the US parent company prioritize if/when faced with enforcement actions? IANAL/etc, but the subsidiary and the parent are different people (legal personhood). The US parent is only responsible for the EU subsidiary’s acti…

That is a rather laughable actual protection isn’t it? People do stuff because their bosses tell them too.

I know people (even members of my own family) who have resigned jobs because they felt the personal legal risk to themselves was excessive. In my experience, it is a much more common event at the C-suite level, where that risk is most acute, than at the level of individual contributors. If the company goes bankrupt, the ICs in accounting are unlikely to be personally found liable for the company’s debts - but if the CEO and CFO are proven to be guilty of “trading while insolvent”, they can be.

Re: AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated by EU citizens

#50

Post by phillipseamore »

A little BTS from 2 days ago which might imply that this was a very recent decision: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44769960

"AWS rescined my offer due to the lack of citizenship"

"At the beginning of June, I had the opportunity to interview at AWS for a Systems Engineer position (working on the EU Sovereign Cloud project)."

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