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Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

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Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#301

Post by Macha »

jplrssn wrote: post #287
hdgvhicv wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what “mail” is, but I’d love to see the result of the outcome when they issues a challenge at the deposit protection company.

> I have no idea what “mail” is Not a native speaker. How do you refer to the pieces of paper that the Royal Mail sometimes drop through your letterbox?

Ironically, despite the company being called the Royal Mail, the letters it delivers are referred to as "post".

This is unlike the US Postal Service, which delivers "mail".

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#302

Post by kjkjadksj »

ludicrousdispla wrote: post #116
jfengel wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there that much smoking in hotels? Do they charge more for smoking rooms? A number like 84x suggests that it's basically zero now. That kinda makes sense. The only one who would notice is the cleaning staff, and relying on their word for "it smelled like smoke" sounds like a way to get a chargeback. They'd call you on it only if they were forced to take the room out of rotation to air it out. So maybe there are a…

The last time I walked into a hotel room that smelled like cigarette smoke was in 1998, so I would think this is very uncommon.

Last time this happened for me was 2024. Note to self, don’t buy the cheapest hotel possible. It will smell like a blunt wrap.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#303

Post by mustyoshi »

WWLink wrote: post #297
recipe19 wrote: post #259

It reminds me of a hotel I stayed at that had a stocked mini-fridge. Removing any item from the fridge resulted in an automatic, silent charge. Putting it back did not remove the charge. So if you simply took something out to check it in, or if you wanted to chill your own beverage, they counted that as consuming the item. They removed the charges if you checked the bill and objected at checkout. But how many people…

Those things should just be illegal. I can't even imagine how much energy and plastic/paper/food goes to waste in those damn things.

An entire hotel probably wastes less from the mini fridge specifically than a family of 4 for a year.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#304

Post by WWLink »

adrr wrote: post #35
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

I bet it’s also a rev share model. Hotel doesn’t pay for the device but revenue is shared. Like the traffic cameras where they shorten yellow light to durations that a car is incapable of stopping in time.

What's messed up about red light cameras is they can actually be useful - if used correctly!

The correct use case is "We seem to have a problem with red light runners at this intersection, so let's find out why by temporarily deploying red light cameras here."

I've seen this done and the city in question found out. They were able to make some changes to the light timing and at several intersections, that caused the amount of red light runners to drastically drop. (It was stuff like the left turn light not turning green when the straight forward light did).

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#305

Post by geraldwhen »

lxgr wrote: post #137
kotaKat wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the App Store screenshots - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/rest-by-noiseaware/id644925142... The app even tracks the whole fee amount in-app being collected. "Net charge", "adjusted charge amount" reasons of "guest complaint"...

Their "NoiseAware" main product line also sounds incredibly dystopian. Apparently, that's a "privacy-safe" microphone listening in rental properties, to "detect crowds gathering"...!? This type of creepy stuff, together with Airbnb's horrible business practices (last time they wanted access to my checking account transaction history via Plaid!) and enabling scammy hosts, is why I'm back to just staying at regular hot…

A decibel reader isn’t a microphone that records, necessarily. Being obnoxiously loud is a societal ill and I applaud efforts to reduce this.

No one wants to live next to an Airbnb house blasting music at 3am.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#307

Post by const_cast »

gpm wrote: post #108
vkou wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number like 84x implies that it's almost entirely false positives.

No... it could be false positives, it could also be that almost no one (~1%) of smokers were caught before and this is actually a miracle technology that detects smoking. Frankly it tracks that almost no one was caught before.

> Frankly it tracks that almost no one was caught before.

How? How does this track?

Cigarette smoking is very conspicuous. I know, I used to smoke. It's not easy to hide!

If you smoke inside, it will smell like smoke. Fabric and even plaster in walls will hold onto smoke for a long time. Not to mention the smoke smell goes under doors, too, so someone outside the room could smell it.

If someone smokes in a room and you walk in any time in the next 12 hours, you will be able to tell. That means the cleaning staff should be able to detect smoke very well. Keep in mind, this is assuming you don't set off the smoke alarms, which is ALSO very easy to do in a hotel room because the ceilings are very low!

The only way around this is smoking outside, like on a balcony. Which, I'm sure, is against the rules too - but it doesn't harm anyone if you can't even detect it, so I'm not sure it's a problem.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#308

Post by mindslight »

margalabargala wrote: post #282
mindslight wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Class action lawsuits are a boon for corpos. They take what should be many separate instances of fraud with unknown unknowns and tie them all off in one small garbage bag. Half the money goes to the attorneys and the other half is a token payment or even just funds a coupon to encourage doing more business with the perpetrator. I'd really like to see some service that facilitates you opting out of a class action, and…

They're a boom compared the the impossible ideal world where every instance is prosecuted separately, but barring the superhuman feat of getting thousands of individuals to show up to court, they are certainly far worse for corporations than any realistic alternate scenario.

One alternative scenario is for courts to start recognizing administrative runaround as actual damages. It sounds like there is a lot of back and forth to correct these fraudulent bills, so estimating maybe 4 days of 4 hours of paralegal-equivalent time ~ $1600. But then additional legal fees on top of that for having to press the matter, so ~$5000? Whereas a class action lawsuit would net like maybe $20 token payment to victims, so $40 cost to company. So perhaps only 1 out of 100 people who were wronged would have to actually sue to make it just as bad for the corpo. Never mind getting into things like treble damages as these corpos are deliberately committing these frauds.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#309

Post by lxgr »

geraldwhen wrote: post #305
lxgr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their "NoiseAware" main product line also sounds incredibly dystopian. Apparently, that's a "privacy-safe" microphone listening in rental properties, to "detect crowds gathering"...!? This type of creepy stuff, together with Airbnb's horrible business practices (last time they wanted access to my checking account transaction history via Plaid!) and enabling scammy hosts, is why I'm back to just staying at regular hot…

A decibel reader isn’t a microphone that records, necessarily. Being obnoxiously loud is a societal ill and I applaud efforts to reduce this. No one wants to live next to an Airbnb house blasting music at 3am.

Sure, but I’ll certainly not stay at a place putting me under privacy-invading surveillance on the suspicion that I don’t know basic etiquette.

I’ll also consider these things to be microphones unless their manufacturer explicitly says otherwise, yet on their website I’ve only seen vague assurances about them being privacy-friendly.

For some, “on-device speech recognition that only sends voice samples for cloud analysis in exceptional cases” would probably also meet that bar, but it doesn’t for me.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#310

Post by mihaaly »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

Actually when an algorithm results in something false, then you do not have to challange it, it is just simply wrong.

Insisting and charging somoking based on implicit and obscure ways of a "revenue stream generating" detector is a pure scam or fraud. Those involved in this criminal endeavour should be procecuted.

I will avoid Hyatt just in case and discourage my social circles too, warning them! No-one needs this sleazy treatment.

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