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Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

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Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#31
post #23

Tire shops do this by siping your tires and then offering you a refund if you complain that you never wanted it. But they do it without asking to everyone and then charge $60 hoping nobody notices.

Unbelievably brazen to not bother trying to push an upsell, and just charge it without authorisation. Crazy

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#32
post #17

This reminds me of Hertz new "AI" camera based damage detection... Although much less effort... This is the end. May progress have mercy on our souls.

Knowing Hertz, the 360 degree camera scan still won't be proof that you didn't steal the vehicle from them

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#33
Not about smoking but I recently stayed at a W hotel and was woken in the middle of the night by the room lights turning on. They used electronic push buttons and I turned them off. Seconds later they turned on again. This repeated several times until I was fully awake and called the front desk.

"We can come put tape on the sensors."

"What sensors?"

"There are sensors under the bed."

"Oh, so you already know about this problem but haven't fixed it. Thanks, please don't send anyone."

I then looked under the bed and sure enough there was a motion detector on each side. I removed these from their brackets and let them dangle facing the floor instead of outward. This blinded them and solved the problem. I guess they were malfunctioning or they were able to detect motion above the bed via reflections.

The next day I reported this to the front desk, who were unsympathetic and unhelpful. They told me it was for my own safety. Apparently at other hotels I have just been incredibly lucky not to have fallen down when getting out of bed.

I will not stay at a W hotel again unless I can confirm in advance that they do not have motion detectors under the bed which spuriously turn the lights on at night. Maybe I'll add Hyatt to the no-go list.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#34

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

"unlocking revenue stream" is wild way to say theft

[flagged]

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#35

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

I bet it’s also a rev share model. Hotel doesn’t pay for the device but revenue is shared. Like the traffic cameras where they shorten yellow light to durations that a car is incapable of stopping in time.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#36
This is a microcosm for enshittification writ large. If no one cares about your individual complaint you’re fucked. Only in numbers do consumers wield any power. The 48 Laws of Power says, “what is unseen counts for nothing.” So make it seen. Make bullshit like this visible. And vote with your dollars. Better yet sue the smoke detector company. Make them demonstrate their flawless false positive rate in court. Bullshit, grifting companies keep getting away with stuff like this because there are no consequences. Make them feel it where it hurts the most: their bank account.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"unlocking revenue stream" is wild way to say theft

[flagged]

No, surely this product didn’t just come to market in the last 6 months. Every problem in the world isn’t caused by Trump, though many are. Blaming Trump for hotel smoke detectors delegitimizes the legitimate problems coming from this administration.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#38
post #19

I bet Rest just uses a cheap voc sensor and triggers when a set threshold is hit. I doubt there's any algorithm involved.

Having played with an SGP41 (a current-gen VOC sensor), you cannot correctly do anything involving a threshold. The sensor has a couple of nasty properties, all well documented in the datasheet:

- It has a lot of low frequency noise (timescale of hours to days), so you need to do some sort of high pass filter.

- The responses to different VOC compounds don’t even necessarily have the same sign.

So the sensor gives you a “raw” reading that you are supposed to post-process with a specific algorithm to produce a “VOC index” that, under steady state conditions, is a constant irrespective of the actual VOC level. And then you look at it over time and it will go to a higher value to indicate something like “it’s probably stinkier now than it was half an hour ago”.

This, of course, cannot distinguish smoking from perfume or from anything else, nor is it even particularly reliable at indicating anything at all.

Modern PM2.5 meters are actually pretty good, although they struggle in high humidity conditions. But they still can’t distinguish smoking from other sources on fine particles.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#39
post #12

Here's a "vape detector" with more explaination.[1] It contains an air particulates detector and a CO2 detector, plus humidity, temperature, and noise and light sensors. They're probably looking for particulates and CO2 ramp up, hence the "algorithm". It's not clear how accurate this is, but it's not mysterious. There's a version sold to schools that adds "bullying detector" capability. This adds detection of "keywor…

It sounds ludicrous to say out loud, but if you're staying in a Hyatt hotel, it's best not to take a hot shower until this issue is resolved. The steam from the showers tend to make these types of particle sensors go wild.

Even outdoors, humidity is a problem. Humidity turns little particles into bigger, soggier particles that give higher readings on optical sensors, which can rather inflate readings on cheap sensors in humid or foggy conditions. There’s a reason that the actual EPA particle counting standards involve drying the particles before measurement.

(RIP, EPA.)

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