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Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

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Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#181

Post by mindslight »

lxgr wrote: post #132

There has got to be a way to penalize companies for attempting this kind of thing. Even just removing the charge without discussion isn't enough, as some people will be traveling on a corporate card they don't necessarily monitor closely, will confuse the charge for something else etc. Otherwise, I'd love to be able to preemptively and without any prior communication charge (way in excess of the room rate, of course!…

It's called the criminal justice system, specifically the longstanding laws against fraud. But it requires effective government to implement, and government has been becoming ever less effective at such things (it tends to give corpos a pass based on diffusing responsibility rather than properly charging everyone involved with criminal conspiracy)

Another pillar of the problem is the corpos having excepted themselves from basic libel/slander laws through the "Fair" Credit Reporting Act. The common response should be one round of "piss off, prove it", with then a high barrier for the fraudster to substantiate such a debt in a court of law. Instead people are put on the defensive by the thought of such lies going on their permanent surveillance records, and perhaps becoming some kind of problem in the future.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#182

Post by SoftTalker »

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #131
vintermann wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often I wonder if some scammers (and this is totally a scam) basically pay a premium to feel like they've outsmarted people, or for the smirking satisfaction that their victims can't do anything about it. Some scams are so much work for so little gain, or so obviously counterproductive in anything but the short term, that it seems like that.

No, it's just stupidity and myopia. Like those screens that replaced glass beverage cases in liquor stores a few years ago. Not one customer liked them. Not one customer wanted them and the results were beyond terrible. People literally stopped buying. But people actually invested millions into that company and other people actually bought their products and thought "gee this is great". Imagine how disconnected you h…

Maybe I don't go to liquor stores often enough but I can't imagine what you are talking about.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#183

Post by Zigurd »

Hotels don't want to be left out of the enshittification that Airbnb seems to have turned into an artform. In the travel industry, your customers are nearly captives to your whims. And if your whims are not profitable enough, the tech bros are here to make you the money while saving you the effort.

I predict that Rest will merge with Axon so that after they get a false positive in your room, a cop can barge in and taser you on body cam.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#185

Post by quickthrowman »

Havoc wrote: post #107

> “unlock a new revenue stream” Monetizing fire safety. Lovely. Appears this company rebranded from NoiseAware. More tech to monitor "valued" guests...this time on noise levels

Vape and smoke detection is not fire safety. Hotel rooms have 2-4 hour fire rated partitions (unsure on duration), typically have their own HVAC not linked to outside the room (and if there is central HVAC the supply and return ducts have fire smoke dampers), and are usually sprinkled.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#186

Post by mindslight »

abtinf wrote: post #154
lxgr wrote: post #132

There has got to be a way to penalize companies for attempting this kind of thing. Even just removing the charge without discussion isn't enough, as some people will be traveling on a corporate card they don't necessarily monitor closely, will confuse the charge for something else etc. Otherwise, I'd love to be able to preemptively and without any prior communication charge (way in excess of the room rate, of course!…

Seems like a candidate for class action lawsuits against the hotel, the brand, and the sensor company?

Class action lawsuits are a boon for corpos. They take what should be many separate instances of fraud with unknown unknowns and tie them all off in one small garbage bag. Half the money goes to the attorneys and the other half is a token payment or even just funds a coupon to encourage doing more business with the perpetrator.

I'd really like to see some service that facilitates you opting out of a class action, and then comes in later representing you for your own individual case (at scale) based on the implicit admission of wrongdoing from the settlement plus documenting actual damages.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#187

Post by newAccount2025 »

hansvm wrote: post #148
lxgr wrote: post #132

There has got to be a way to penalize companies for attempting this kind of thing. Even just removing the charge without discussion isn't enough, as some people will be traveling on a corporate card they don't necessarily monitor closely, will confuse the charge for something else etc. Otherwise, I'd love to be able to preemptively and without any prior communication charge (way in excess of the room rate, of course!…

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can afford a legal battle better than you.

Can’t you do a charge back? Isn’t this a key kind of protection that credit cards give you?

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#188

Post by photonthug »

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #163
photonthug wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without brand loyalty, hotels suffer. Executive decision makers won't though. It's clear that consolidation in many sectors has gotten to the point that consumer power is an absolute joke and "ignore them, abuse them, and just defraud them" is a standard business model. Even if there's litigation.. this crap just overwhelms services so that basically the public pays twice. Witness the situation where various attorn…

This is what actually kills brands. The funny thing is our collective memory is short, so a brand killed by poor product and bad decisions is often revitalized by PE a few years later, because of brand recognition.

Actually I think the public tends to generalize their complaints/injuries and act in the most spiteful ways that are available to them. For example, decades of bad experiences at the DMV translates into cries that we should defund the post-office, NSF, etc, no matter how irrational that is.

But capital has a playbook now that's pretty effective at dodging this kind of backlash, like the "advertising without signal" thing that's also on the front page right now is pointing out. That article mentions "Disposable brand identities" which does seem relevant here even if that piece is mainly talking about the relationship between amazon/manufacturers/consumers. Part of what PE is accomplishing is brand/liability laundering, but brands head in this direction anyway before they fail. Consumers can't typically look at list of 10-20 "different" hotel brands and really tell which are under the same umbrella.

And all this is kind of assuming consumer choice exists and is still meaningful, but when you need a hotel you need a hotel. If Hyatt gets away with this abuse, every hotel will do it soon, and capital can just wait out any boycott.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#189

Post by SoftTalker »

MiddleEndian wrote: post #134
laborcontract wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds ludicrous to say out loud, but if you're staying in a Hyatt hotel, it's best not to take a hot shower until this issue is resolved. The steam from the showers tend to make these types of particle sensors go wild.

The smoke detector in my previous condo used to go off all the time when I showered. Had to remove it shortly after moving in lol

Must have been placed improperly. They should not be installed in kitchens or in or near bathrooms.

But also, you should run the exhaust fan in the bathroom when you shower, this removes at least some of the moist air and cuts down on the chance for moisture damage and mold to develop.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#190

Post by [deleted] »

alanfranz wrote: post #48
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

https://www.restsensor.com/

They also cover vaping. While smoking harms are clear and its impact on room smell is evident, the connection is pretty weak for vaping. Unless it’s a crowded bar with lots of vaping people, I can’t tell if somebody has previously used an e-cigarette or vaporized anything in a room, and generally speaking I don’t find such vapor disturbing (altough the smell can be not great).

[deleted]
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