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Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

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Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#111

Post by ekidd »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #25
dawnerd wrote: post #19

I bet Rest just uses a cheap voc sensor and triggers when a set threshold is hit. I doubt there's any algorithm involved.

Yep. And these things trigger from things including hairspray, nail polish remover, nail polish, microwaved food, and more. I'm constantly watching "VOCs" on a cheapo Amazon AQM change whenever I cook.

Yeah, stovetop cooking makes your VOC and particulate numbers look like a bad day on an LA freeway.

The other thing that's surprisingly nasty for air quality is incense. You might live in the woods with excellent air quality, but burn some incense and suddenly all the VOC and particulate numbers look like downtown Manhattan. It's ironic that incense is a massive air pollutant, but not really surprising.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#112

Post by redserk »

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #102
xg15 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the thread, it sounds as if they don't even pretend this is about cleaning, they're just saying "we're a smoke-free hotel, so smoking costs $500 as a punitive measure, period". I wonder if they could legally separate this from any real-world activities completely? During check-in, put a clause in the contract "if our partner company says so, you have to pay $500 extra. By signing, you agree to that" - without an…

Religious freedom may come into play here. Incense and candles are a basis for many faiths so assigning a fee on people practicing their faith will cost them in court and in payouts.

Not unless the hotel is government owned or fall into a few very specific carveouts.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#113

Post by lstamour »

gonzalohm wrote: post #90
grishka wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hair dryers are mentioned several times, so I would assume one of the things these sensors look for is a rise in the air temperature.

You would need a pretty good sensor to detect a temperature increase from lighting a cigarette. Most likely, the hair dryer has a hair stuck that gets burnt once turned on

Or perhaps formaldehyde release from hair spray and other chemicals partly due to the heat of the hair dryer, but also released because of the agitation and wind.

Technically I think perfume, sweat and trace amounts of smoking residue, including formaldehyde, from personal belongings could probably also raise VOCs as hotels often have very, very poor airflow by design - open windows and balconies have historically encouraged smokers so they were removed, but now you can rarely find any hotels with fresh air in the rooms, and those you find often smell of cigarette smoke for obvious reasons. (Smokers will often stay at hotels with airflow or balconies and take advantage of these features when they can. Also, airing out a room will kill a scent temporarily but only cleaning the room or replacing natural textiles will permanently remove the scent when the window is closed.)

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#115

Post by andrepd »

Havoc wrote: post #107

> “unlock a new revenue stream” Monetizing fire safety. Lovely. Appears this company rebranded from NoiseAware. More tech to monitor "valued" guests...this time on noise levels

It's the consequence of growth capitalism. When it's not enough to make money, you have to make more money this quarter than you did last, then it's really only a matter of time until everything is monetised under the exclusive logic of greed, devoid of any other considerations of a moral or human order. Public goods, water fountains, libraries, beaches, forests. Basic state functions. Your attention, at every moment. On it marches.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#116

Post by ludicrousdispla »

jfengel wrote: post #91
cpard wrote: post #42

From their FAQ: "Is it worth the investment? Absolutely. Hotels equipped with Rest have seen an 84x increase in smoking fine collection. Plus, our smoking detection technology helps prevent damage to rooms and reduce a number of future violations." Apparently there are way more people smoking than we thought there are or the sensor just generates a lot of false positives. The language they are using all over the site…

Is there that much smoking in hotels? Do they charge more for smoking rooms? A number like 84x suggests that it's basically zero now. That kinda makes sense. The only one who would notice is the cleaning staff, and relying on their word for "it smelled like smoke" sounds like a way to get a chargeback. They'd call you on it only if they were forced to take the room out of rotation to air it out. So maybe there are a…

The last time I walked into a hotel room that smelled like cigarette smoke was in 1998, so I would think this is very uncommon.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#117

Post by gpm »

leoedin wrote: post #62
Animats wrote: post #12

Here's a "vape detector" with more explaination.[1] It contains an air particulates detector and a CO2 detector, plus humidity, temperature, and noise and light sensors. They're probably looking for particulates and CO2 ramp up, hence the "algorithm". It's not clear how accurate this is, but it's not mysterious. There's a version sold to schools that adds "bullying detector" capability. This adds detection of "keywor…

Why would CO2 be caused by vaping? And surely the amount of CO2 caused by a cigarette is dwarfed by the amount exhaled by a person?

A person outputs about 1kg of CO2 per day, which is less than 1 gram per minute. A cigarette weighs roughly a gram, which means it probably emits roughly 3 grams of CO2... or less... (The O2 comes from the environment, and weighs 32 to carbons 12, but the cigarette isn't actually pure carbon).

I don't know... that's maybe detectable? You'd need a pretty sensitive CO2 sensor and to be tying it to other signs to avoid "someone else walked into and out of the room"... but in principle...

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#118

Post by kittikitti »

I don't understand why so many commentators are acting surprised at this morally dubious company. Many if not most companies coming out of YCombinator are just as bad. Just one case is uBiome. In fact, I would argue that YCombinator and the startup culture they create directly enabled companies to do exactly this.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#119

Post by progbits »

adrr wrote: post #35
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

I bet it’s also a rev share model. Hotel doesn’t pay for the device but revenue is shared. Like the traffic cameras where they shorten yellow light to durations that a car is incapable of stopping in time.

So aside from Rest being incompetent morons ("temperature changes" from smoking??), they now also have incentive to make it trigger as much as possible.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#120

Post by vintermann »

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #100

If I got one of these I'd pay it and never, ever, ever stay at any hotel owned by the entity again. Being that I spend $25k-50k a year on hotels, their loss is a small hotel's gain. In fact, whoever does this will lose my business ahead of time as I will never stay at any hotel that uses this service. A few minutes on Tripadvisor and you'll know. Such incredible business myopia. Hotels are one of the few businesses t…

Often I wonder if some scammers (and this is totally a scam) basically pay a premium to feel like they've outsmarted people, or for the smirking satisfaction that their victims can't do anything about it. Some scams are so much work for so little gain, or so obviously counterproductive in anything but the short term, that it seems like that.
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