Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors” • Hacker News Board

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#131

Post by DudeOpotomus » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:51 PM UTC

vintermann wrote: post #120

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #100

If I got one of these I'd pay it and never, ever, ever stay at any hotel owned by the entity again. Being that I spend $25k-50k a year on hotels, their loss is a small hotel's gain. In fact, whoever does this will lose my business ahead of time as I will never stay at any hotel that uses this service. A few minutes on Tripadvisor and you'll know. Such incredible business myopia. Hotels are one of the few businesses t…

Often I wonder if some scammers (and this is totally a scam) basically pay a premium to feel like they've outsmarted people, or for the smirking satisfaction that their victims can't do anything about it. Some scams are so much work for so little gain, or so obviously counterproductive in anything but the short term, that it seems like that.

No, it's just stupidity and myopia. Like those screens that replaced glass beverage cases in liquor stores a few years ago. Not one customer liked them. Not one customer wanted them and the results were beyond terrible. People literally stopped buying. But people actually invested millions into that company and other people actually bought their products and thought "gee this is great". Imagine how disconnected you have to be from your customers to make such an investment and/or installation for a few bucks? Stupid is as stupid does...

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#132

Post by lxgr » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:51 PM UTC

There has got to be a way to penalize companies for attempting this kind of thing. Even just removing the charge without discussion isn't enough, as some people will be traveling on a corporate card they don't necessarily monitor closely, will confuse the charge for something else etc.

Otherwise, I'd love to be able to preemptively and without any prior communication charge (way in excess of the room rate, of course!) hotels for broken appliances, poor cleanliness etc., and put the burden of proof that everything was fine on them.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#133

Post by giraffe_lady » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:52 PM UTC

rzz3 wrote: post #37

xyst wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, surely this product didn’t just come to market in the last 6 months. Every problem in the world isn’t caused by Trump, though many are. Blaming Trump for hotel smoke detectors delegitimizes the legitimate problems coming from this administration.

There is a certain "scams are legal now" vibe to american society these days. I wouldn't say it's directly caused by trump but he's certainly contributing to it.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#134

Post by MiddleEndian » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:52 PM UTC

laborcontract wrote: post #14

Animats wrote: post #12

Here's a "vape detector" with more explaination.[1] It contains an air particulates detector and a CO2 detector, plus humidity, temperature, and noise and light sensors. They're probably looking for particulates and CO2 ramp up, hence the "algorithm". It's not clear how accurate this is, but it's not mysterious. There's a version sold to schools that adds "bullying detector" capability. This adds detection of "keywor…

It sounds ludicrous to say out loud, but if you're staying in a Hyatt hotel, it's best not to take a hot shower until this issue is resolved. The steam from the showers tend to make these types of particle sensors go wild.

The smoke detector in my previous condo used to go off all the time when I showered. Had to remove it shortly after moving in lol

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#135

Post by zeroonetwothree » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:56 PM UTC

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #100

If I got one of these I'd pay it and never, ever, ever stay at any hotel owned by the entity again. Being that I spend $25k-50k a year on hotels, their loss is a small hotel's gain. In fact, whoever does this will lose my business ahead of time as I will never stay at any hotel that uses this service. A few minutes on Tripadvisor and you'll know. Such incredible business myopia. Hotels are one of the few businesses t…

It’s tricky because the chains (like “Hyatt”) don’t actually own any hotels. They are generally owned by local ownership groups and it can be hard to figure out the real owner.

That’s also why one Hyatt could be 5/5 and another 1/5. The chains don’t do a great job of quality control.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#136

Post by FireBeyond » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #93

jdenning wrote: post #18

This seems like outright fraud - how can they charge a cleaning fee and then perform no cleaning?

Leases often work this way. In theory it's illegal in the UK (for a home, businesses are assumed to be big boys who can negotiate on equal footing) but it's still pretty common to be charged when you move out. Specifically UK law says "reasonable wear and tear" is just an expected cost of people living in a house you let to them - so e.g. they're going to wear out carpet after some years, but a cigar burn is not OK,…

I had friends whose landlord attempted to charge them cleaning fees for an apartment that they were renovating down to the studs (and had told them that, etc. They'd been working through the complex.

They had to go to small claims. You can't claim a repair fee for some scratches and dents in drywall that you had crowbarred out the day after vacation of the property.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#137

Post by lxgr » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

kotaKat wrote: post #129

adrr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet it’s also a rev share model. Hotel doesn’t pay for the device but revenue is shared. Like the traffic cameras where they shorten yellow light to durations that a car is incapable of stopping in time.

Check the App Store screenshots - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/rest-by-noiseaware/id644925142... The app even tracks the whole fee amount in-app being collected. "Net charge", "adjusted charge amount" reasons of "guest complaint"...

Their "NoiseAware" main product line also sounds incredibly dystopian. Apparently, that's a "privacy-safe" microphone listening in rental properties, to "detect crowds gathering"...!?

This type of creepy stuff, together with Airbnb's horrible business practices (last time they wanted access to my checking account transaction history via Plaid!) and enabling scammy hosts, is why I'm back to just staying at regular hotels.

Sad to see some of them are now start adopting the same type of customer-hostile technology as well.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#138

Post by zeroonetwothree » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

jfengel wrote: post #94

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #89

So someone does not smoke in their room but they’re charged for cleaning anyway because a third party (Rest) told the hotel that they smoked in their room. What sort of evidence should one gather during their stay to make the strongest possible (defamation? fraud?) case against Rest? (Not that anyone wants to do that on their trip, just curious about the legal implications.)

Would it work if it were real time? You light up, and five minutes later a manager knocks. Dunno about the legality of refusing to open the door, but it does sound like a way to get banned from a hotel chain.

Generally you have no rights in a hotel to prevent entry.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#139

Post by zeroonetwothree » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:59 PM UTC

ludicrousdispla wrote: post #116

jfengel wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there that much smoking in hotels? Do they charge more for smoking rooms? A number like 84x suggests that it's basically zero now. That kinda makes sense. The only one who would notice is the cleaning staff, and relying on their word for "it smelled like smoke" sounds like a way to get a chargeback. They'd call you on it only if they were forced to take the room out of rotation to air it out. So maybe there are a…

The last time I walked into a hotel room that smelled like cigarette smoke was in 1998, so I would think this is very uncommon.

I had one in 2022. I immediately asked for a different room.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#140

Post by belorn » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:02 PM UTC

stogot wrote: post #64

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

I assume if it’s triggering on car exhaust or something from opening room windows

I would assume it was triggered by insects crossing the sensor. Optical smoke detectors are common in hotels.