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CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

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Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#131

Post by WalterBright »

wvenable wrote: post #128
WalterBright wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recognizing `3+x*(2+y)` is compilation - even if the program is being executed while compiling it.

You can continue to argue the point but that goes against every single definition of compilation that exists. Compilation is a transformation of programming language into another form. For example, taking `3+x*(2+y)` and transforming it into a series of byte codes, machine language instructions, ASTs, or even C code would be compilation. The BASIC interpreter doesn't recognize `3+x*(2+y)` nor does it compile it inste…

Well, all my compilers use recursive descent for expressions, meaning the stack is used to maintain the current state. Whether you evaluate it while doing this or produce an IR is a trivial difference.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#132

Post by wvenable »

WalterBright wrote: post #131
wvenable wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can continue to argue the point but that goes against every single definition of compilation that exists. Compilation is a transformation of programming language into another form. For example, taking `3+x*(2+y)` and transforming it into a series of byte codes, machine language instructions, ASTs, or even C code would be compilation. The BASIC interpreter doesn't recognize `3+x*(2+y)` nor does it compile it inste…

Well, all my compilers use recursive descent for expressions, meaning the stack is used to maintain the current state. Whether you evaluate it while doing this or produce an IR is a trivial difference.

It might be a trivial difference but it's literally the thing that makes something a compiler. It should make sense. How a piece of software works doesn't make it a compiler or not; it's input and output of the software that defines it as a compiler. That's true of almost any broad category of software.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#134

Post by burnt-resistor »

canucker2016 wrote: post #105
senderista wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least Jobs could design a product…

Both of them screwed over early employees wrt company shares. Jobs and Apple board didn't give stock options/shares to some early employees, Woz stepped in to make up for some of the shortfall. see https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Woz_Plan Gates argued with Paul Allen about the percentage of company ownership. IMHO, Allen didn't like confrontation so Allen acquiesced to Gates benefit.

The Valley promotes such figures. I once had to intervene on behalf of some Japanese visitors who were being taken advantage of by a headstrong young whippersnapper in the Valley who was totally oblivious to the needs and customs of others.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#135

Post by burnt-resistor »

WalterBright wrote: post #47
csense wrote: post #45

"Glenn came to my tool shed computer room in 1975, so we could "adapt" CP/M to the IMSAI hardware. What this means is that I would rewrite the parts of CP/M that manage things like diskette controllers and CRTs. Well. come on, I'd already done this so many times that the tips of my fingers were wearing thin, so I designed a general interface, which I called the BIOS (BASIC I/O System) that a good programmer could cha…

In retrospect, MS-DOS was a rather trivial program. Sometimes I wonder why I and/or many others did not write an equivalent, even just for fun.

API quirks compatibility, legal threats, and lack of distribution into channel resellers.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#136

Post by jacquesm »

WalterBright wrote: post #123
jacquesm wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compilers generate code in another, usually lower level language that is executed by reading all of the code that could be executed first. Interpreters (such as the BASIC interpreter we are discussing here) read only that part of the code that gets executed and typically call functions rather than that they generate code (never mind JIT). Tokenization prior to interpretation is technically an optional step (it's just…

You and I have a different point of view.

Of all the hills you could die on this one seems really silly.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#137

Post by eichin »

wvenable wrote: post #128
WalterBright wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recognizing `3+x*(2+y)` is compilation - even if the program is being executed while compiling it.

You can continue to argue the point but that goes against every single definition of compilation that exists. Compilation is a transformation of programming language into another form. For example, taking `3+x*(2+y)` and transforming it into a series of byte codes, machine language instructions, ASTs, or even C code would be compilation. The BASIC interpreter doesn't recognize `3+x*(2+y)` nor does it compile it inste…

No problem calling it parsing, but yeah, "compilation" feels like a huge stretch. And they didn't do recursive descent - just tokenizing for compactness (when you only have 4k or 16k of RAM you do things like that) - you could still get syntax errors at runtime. In some interpreters it also served to normalize abbreviations to save typing.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#138

Post by rbanffy »

whobre wrote: post #75
rbanffy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. He ran out and acquired 86-DOS, from Seattle Computer Products. It's easy to have something when you buy it already complete. And DR had CP/M-86.

DRI did not have CP/M-86 at that time which is the reason Tim Paterson developed 86-DOS in the first place.

CP/M-86 was first expected to be delivered in 1979, so I assume it existed in one form or another prior to that, shipments pending hardware availability. I wouldn't expect DRI to fund the adaptation without a cooperative manufacturer unless there were a significant installed base.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#139

Post by rbanffy »

canucker2016 wrote: post #103
rbanffy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. He ran out and acquired 86-DOS, from Seattle Computer Products. It's easy to have something when you buy it already complete. And DR had CP/M-86.

MS still had to make modifications to Tim Patterson's 86-DOS before it shipped as PC-DOS 1.0 - source: Paul Allen's Idea Man autobiography.

Of course - the PC didn't exist when SCP made 86-DOS. The same way as with CP/M, the hardware interface had to be written.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#140

Post by gompertz »

DavidLawsCHM wrote: post #126
gompertz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet in Gates' recently released memoir, if you do a ctrl+f for Kildall there are zero results. Unsure how Gates, as a programmer and business founder , could write a memoir without a single blurb for Gary.

The bio is in three parts. If he mentions Gary it will be in part 2.

Interesting, thx wasn't aware!
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