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CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

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Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#121
post #56
post #6

I wish Gary was one of the people that the average joe associated with "people who are known for doing computer things", instead of only people such as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. His accomplishments cannot be overstated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall#Recognition

> instead of only people such as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. At least gates could program...

Yet in Gates' recently released memoir, if you do a ctrl+f for Kildall there are zero results. Unsure how Gates, as a programmer and business founder , could write a memoir without a single blurb for Gary.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I recall, Kildall thought that CP/M-86 was much better than MSDOS, and people would pay the higher price. He was unable to make the case, though. I tried CP/M-86, and found it to be different, but not better.

> I tried CP/M-86, and found it to be different, but not better. Comparing PC-DOS 1.0 to CP/M-86 1.0, I don’t think there are huge differences in features - maybe FAT12 is a more efficient filesystem; PC-DOS records file sizes to the byte, CP/M files are made up of 128 byte records, and although there is a filesystem attribute to say how many bytes in last record are used (file size mod 128), it has to be implemented…

The CP/M-86 wikipedia page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/M-86 )lists the IBM PC version release date as 1982-04-05, several months after the Aug 12 1981 IBM PC introduction.

According to this wired.com page, https://www.wired.com/2011/08/0812ibm-5150-personal-computer..., IBM had sold 65K PCs in 4 months.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been writing compilers for 45 years now. Tokenizing is a big part of every textbook on compilers. To resolve expressions (which are recursive in nature) it would have had to do more than just tokenizing. While this isn't hard at all, it's "parsing" which is also qualifying it as a compiler. I.e. the basic program was lexing and parsing. It's a compiler. A very simple one, sure, but a compiler.

Compilers generate code in another, usually lower level language that is executed by reading all of the code that could be executed first. Interpreters (such as the BASIC interpreter we are discussing here) read only that part of the code that gets executed and typically call functions rather than that they generate code (never mind JIT). Tokenization prior to interpretation is technically an optional step (it's just…

You and I have a different point of view.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#124
post #6

I wish Gary was one of the people that the average joe associated with "people who are known for doing computer things", instead of only people such as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. His accomplishments cannot be overstated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall#Recognition

Everyone knows Gary Kildall. You're not the only one.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokenizing it and interpreting the token stream is still a compilation process. Even if it re-tokenized it each time it executed a line.

Tokenizing is a necessary but not a sufficient task for compilation. I could tokenize this comment to efficiently store it in a database but that would have nothing to do with compilation.

Recognizing `3+x*(2+y)` is compilation - even if the program is being executed while compiling it.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#126
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead of only people such as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. At least gates could program...

Yet in Gates' recently released memoir, if you do a ctrl+f for Kildall there are zero results. Unsure how Gates, as a programmer and business founder , could write a memoir without a single blurb for Gary.

The bio is in three parts. If he mentions Gary it will be in part 2.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#127
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no way successful IBM would commit to Microsoft without a thorough vetting. As I recall, at the time said commitment was made, Microsoft didn't even _have_ an operating system, and subsequently bought QDOS! Their original deal was for languages.

Gates convinced IBM that he could build one, as he knew about QDOS, and immediately went and bought QDOS as a base to start with. So, yeah, it was a bit of bluster on his part, but he was able to fulfill the contract.

It wasn't a "base to start with". MS Dos was QDOS. I was a summer intern in the early 1980s with IBM in Kingston, NY, and had access to the source. Gates didn't even bother to remove the SCP copyright notice from the comments, nor the references to QDOS. Too bad "sed" and "awk" weren't available for search and replace back then.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokenizing is a necessary but not a sufficient task for compilation. I could tokenize this comment to efficiently store it in a database but that would have nothing to do with compilation.

Recognizing `3+x*(2+y)` is compilation - even if the program is being executed while compiling it.

You can continue to argue the point but that goes against every single definition of compilation that exists. Compilation is a transformation of programming language into another form. For example, taking `3+x*(2+y)` and transforming it into a series of byte codes, machine language instructions, ASTs, or even C code would be compilation.

The BASIC interpreter doesn't recognize `3+x*(2+y)` nor does it compile it instead it evaluates that expression using a pair of stacks. You've expanded the definition of compilation to cover almost all computation. It's compilers all the way down to the electrons.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#129
While I missed out on the CP/M train, I do remember GEM very well. I grew up in a printing company and spent a lot of time in the prepress parts of the company - around the layout and art folks.

There was one employee who brought his own desktop publishing setup. It was a souped up desktop PC and some other kit, but it had the latest MS-DOS, Windows 2.x, Windows 3.x, and GEM - plus a bunch of art and desktop publishing software (I believe Pagemaker).

It wasn't entirely clear at the time what the future was, so it was perfectly reasonable to have all this in one place. I remember at some point noting how similar GEM was to GEOS on my friend's Commodore 64, but how much snappier it felt and how much crisper it looked.

I remember Computer Chronicles being on the air at that time, but never connected the dots that what I was looking at on the computer had anything to do with the co-host. It was a bit dry of a show for a kid, but consistent with the day. But even then I remember Gary clearly being an expert, and I identified much more with him than with Stewart.

A few years later when my family finally bought a PC compatible the only offering for operating system and desktop environment came from Microsoft. They had simply annihilated everything else on the market. By then all the software I knew from the desktop publishing suite and my friends ran in either MS-DOS or Windows 3.1 -- or it ran on an entirely different system (C64, Macintosh, etc.). So we just sort of accepted it.

I remember at some point getting a modem, dialing into BBSs and coming across GEM on a warez board. I downloaded it, had some memories, then moved on. It never evolved the software ecosystem around it that Microsoft managed to create.

Re: CP/M creator Gary Kildall's memoirs released as free download

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates convinced IBM that he could build one, as he knew about QDOS, and immediately went and bought QDOS as a base to start with. So, yeah, it was a bit of bluster on his part, but he was able to fulfill the contract.

It wasn't a "base to start with". MS Dos was QDOS. I was a summer intern in the early 1980s with IBM in Kingston, NY, and had access to the source. Gates didn't even bother to remove the SCP copyright notice from the comments, nor the references to QDOS. Too bad "sed" and "awk" weren't available for search and replace back then.

Much of the remaining QDOS/PCDOS work was probably adapting to the IBM BIOS.

from Tim Paterson's website, https://web.archive.org/web/20190722012644/http://www.paters...

  ...In May, he went to Microsoft to work full-time on the PC-DOS version of 86-DOS.

  "The first day on the job I walk through the door and 'Hey! It's IBM,' " says Paterson, grinning impishly. "I worked at Microsoft a neat eleven months. In May, June, and July I worked on things I hadn't quite finished, refining PC-DOS."

  International Business Machinations.

  This was the beginning of an eleven-month hurricane. Almost daily, Paterson shipped stuff to Boca Raton for IBM's approval, and IBM would instantly return comments, modifications, and more problems.

  "They were real thorough. I would send them a disk the same day via Delta Dash. IBM would be on the phone to me as soon as the disk arrived." Paterson pauses and winds up. He's remembering one request that clashed violently with his view of the project.

  "IBM wanted CP/M prompts. It made me throw up." But when IBM asks, you comply if you're a lowly programmer, and that is what Paterson did.

  He finished PC-DOS in July, one month before the pc was officially announced to the world. By this time, 86-DOS had become MS-DOS.
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