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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#701

Post by sillysaurusx »

cpncrunch wrote: post #642
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #629

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since the…

>since they can't continue as pilots if they seek treatment) You have your facts wrong. Pilots can and do fly if they have mental health diagnoses, as long as they are well managed and there is no history of psychosis or suidical ideation. This is how it should be. https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/a...

On the contrary: https://youtu.be/988j2-4CdgM?si=G39BwNy1zJEeUi2k

The whole reason a pilot made that video is because there’s a huge problem in the airline industry right now.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#702

Post by foldr »

kalenx wrote: post #651
wkat4242 wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an impossible maneuver. Glider pilots do this all the time especially if they don't have spoilers

Yes. On a plane which is designed to be a good glider. I highly doubt a 767 is designed to be a glider. It's definitely not impossible (after all, it was done successfully!), but certainly a very difficult (and undocumented) one on such a plane.

I don’t think there’s much connection between a plane’s ability to do a sideslip and how well it glides. A sideslip is just what naturally happens if you apply opposite aileron and rudder inputs. I think the issue is just that it’s a rather acrobatic maneuver to perform in a large passenger jet.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#703

Post by potamic »

labcomputer wrote: post #586
potamic wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Jul 12th 2025 (UTC) India's media report that the investigation is NOT focussing on a human action causing the fuel switches to appear in the CUTOFF position, but on a system failure. Service Bulletins by Boeing issued in year 2018 recommending to upgrade the fuel switches to locked versions to prevent inadvertent flip of the switches, as well as the FAA/GE issued Service Bulletin FAA-2021-0273-0013 Attachment 2…

> I don't know why online communities have been so quick to gravitate towards the murder/suicide theory. Because the hardware failure theories seem preposterously far-fetched and require an unnecessary multiplication of deities. Your ghost in the machine needs to be “just so” so that it can cause both switches to be read in “cutoff” nearly simultaneously. Then, 10 seconds later one of the switches needs to be read in…

There's also maintenance lapses, faulty repairs, defective parts, and as far as software goes I can think of n number reasons how a ghost can manifest itself inside program logic. This is a new gen plane that relies more on software than any other before, and has in fact seen a couple of incidents with loss of thrust, both related to software. I think it's more prudent to be asking hard questions around these than to outright dismiss it as an open and shut case. Besides, the murder/suicide angle is the least interesting outcome. Because there's nothing you can do after that, other than to just move on.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#704

Post by blincoln »

labcomputer wrote: post #594
callmeal wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could be inadvertently flipped if the "locking" version was not installed: (see the avherald link): >>India's media report that the investigation is NOT focussing on a human action causing the fuel switches to appear in the CUTOFF position, but on a system failure. Service Bulletins by Boeing issued in year 2018 recommending to upgrade the fuel switches to locked versions to prevent inadvertent flip of the sw…

I’m sorry to tell you this, but that appears to be an AI hallucination. https://www.regulations.gov/document/FAA-2021-0273-0013 None of the attachments reference the fuel cutoff switches.

The peer comment to your own has a link to a real doc that supports the claim:

https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/NM-18-33.pdf/SIB_NM-18-33_1

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#705

Post by hexage1814 »

hackrmn wrote: post #680
yason wrote: post #672

It is known that the switches cannot effectively be flipped by accident. It is known that the switches were set to "cut-off" because they were then later restored to "run", so it was not an electrical fault (i.e. switches pointing to run but reporting cut-off). Pilot dialogue and engine telemetry confirms the cause of power loss was fuel cut-off. The question I can't help but think is how did the pilot realize it was…

Given what you're vaguely implying -- that the switches would be nowhere near the first thing a pilot would normally think of in the kind of situation -- what are the odds the pilot asking on record "did you flip the fuel cut-off switch?" is the one who actually flipped the switches and was simply trying to fool the would-be investigation (even knowing they all are about to perish)?

> what are the odds the pilot asking on record "did you flip the fuel cut-off switch?" is the one who actually flipped the switches and was simply trying to fool the would-be investigation (even knowing they all are about to perish)?

This is such a diabolical mind-game that it never occurred to me. Like, they would all die, why would he want to incriminate someone else? But yet, people are weird and crazy. And maybe he didn't go down as a killer and decided to incriminate the other pilot? Anyway, it is totally possible to have happen. Sadly there are no cameras the cockpit, and a camera in the cockpit would really have help to find who did what.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#706

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

AdamN wrote: post #659
macintux wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This idea strikes me as even more unlikely than someone shifting their moving vehicle into reverse while intending to activate the window wipers. I suspect you've never driven an older vehicle with the shifter on the steering column.

Or even crazier, a manual shift on the steering column. Nothing weirder than pushing down the clutch and then changing the gear with your hand on a knob off to the side of the steering wheel.

Like in a Citroën 2CV?

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#707

Post by bgnn »

ipnon wrote: post #426
melenaboija wrote: post #353

I'm completely ignorant about this matter, but why is it even possible to cut off fuel while taking off? Shouldn't there be a control that completely disables this? Is there actually a situation where cutting off both engines could be necessary and wouldn't lead to a catastrophe?

The general principle of aircraft control is that the pilot has the final say on how it is operated, not the designer, because you never know when you will need to take extraordinary measures. And the pilot generally prefers to return to the ground safely.

This is true for boing, but not true dor Airbus design philosophy. Airbus tends to limit the pilot control inout pushing the plane out of safe operation conditions. I'm not sure of it's possible/not possible to cut the engine fuel supply during take-off in any Airbus though.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#708

Post by sunnybeetroot »

swores wrote: post #376
zamadatix wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the nice things about finally having the preliminary report is I get to stop hearing all of the same assumptions/theories/YouTuber said/"a guy I know got a leaked report"/etc in water cooler talk at work because the preliminary report solidly disproved all of them so far. If anyone even had and stuck with an idea matching this report it wouldn't have stood out in the conversations anyways. The collection of co…

It's human nature to want to guess at possible explanations for things that are unusual and unexpected. If hearing those guesses annoys you, nobody is forcing you to read through comments on a thread of people making them! (I hope - sorry if you are being forced after all.)

They are a forum moderator and therefore it is part of their job, it is nice that you apologised.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#709

Post by swores »

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #708
swores wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's human nature to want to guess at possible explanations for things that are unusual and unexpected. If hearing those guesses annoys you, nobody is forcing you to read through comments on a thread of people making them! (I hope - sorry if you are being forced after all.)

They are a forum moderator and therefore it is part of their job, it is nice that you apologised.

I... don't believe that's the case? Though happy to be proven wrong. Unless perhaps you mean a moderator of a different forum, though that wouldn't really be relevant to their reading a thread of HN comments on a subject that annoys them.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#710

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #283
noduerme wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "01 second" as quoted above? If it's 1 second, you could possibly conclude that it was intentional. If it's 0.1 second you might think it was an accident and the lock was disengaged.

One second. (Runway four is frequently zero four because radios.)

[deleted]
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