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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#581

Post by shash »

wkat4242 wrote: post #570

Why didn't they turn them back on then? Or does it take too long to spin up again even if they are still spooling down? This is one of the worst possible moments for this to happen of course. Low speed, low altitude, lots of drag...

They did, about 10 seconds later (which is both incredibly short and an eternity). But the engines almost immediately start losing thrust and it takes them much more time to restart. At the end of the flight, FDR records that one engine was gaining thrust, and the other was attempting to spin up, but it was too late and they didn't have enough glide time for both to gain enough thrust to climb.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#582

Post by wkat4242 »

russfink wrote: post #543
uwagar wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this bathroom thing and various similar scenarios happens to me when im on weed.

Genuinely curious - could heavy marijuana use cause confusion between landing gear and fuel cutoff? Or some other drugs? (Wondering if they screen pilots for alcohol before they board an aircraft.)

They don't screen every time but there are spot checks. A pilot with heavy use will certainly get caught

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#583

Post by MaKey »

jeffbee wrote: post #119
comrade1234 wrote: post #112

Why can the pilot shut off the fuel during takeoff?

Suggest a system that would prevent this, but only this, without causing other risks.

Another comment mentioned that with an Airbus you first have to move the thrust lever to idle before you're able to cutoff the fuel.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#584

Post by wkat4242 »

xeonmc wrote: post #467
maxbond wrote: post #295

I just want to call out that, whatever the facts of this case, pilot heroism is way more common than pilot murder. This is off the top of my head, so don't quote me on the precise details, I'm probably misremembering some things. But a few of my favorite examples: - British Airways 5390: An incorrect repair causes the windshield of a plane to be blown out mid flight. A pilot is nearly sucked out. The head flight atte…

Here's another one: Air Canada 143 - Pilot calculated incorrect fuel due to metric/imperial unit mixup, and ran out of fuel midair. - Said pilot performed an impossible glider-sideslip maneuver to rapidly bleed airspeed just-in-time for an emergency landing at an abandoned airfield, having to completely rely on eyeballing the approach. - No fatalties or serious injuries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVvt7hP5a-0

It's not an impossible maneuver. Glider pilots do this all the time especially if they don't have spoilers

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#586

Post by labcomputer »

potamic wrote: post #471
nottorp wrote: post #408

Almost 400 comments and no avherald link for reference? https://avherald.com/h?article=528f27ec

> On Jul 12th 2025 (UTC) India's media report that the investigation is NOT focussing on a human action causing the fuel switches to appear in the CUTOFF position, but on a system failure. Service Bulletins by Boeing issued in year 2018 recommending to upgrade the fuel switches to locked versions to prevent inadvertent flip of the switches, as well as the FAA/GE issued Service Bulletin FAA-2021-0273-0013 Attachment 2…

> I don't know why online communities have been so quick to gravitate towards the murder/suicide theory.

Because the hardware failure theories seem preposterously far-fetched and require an unnecessary multiplication of deities.

Your ghost in the machine needs to be “just so” so that it can cause both switches to be read in “cutoff” nearly simultaneously. Then, 10 seconds later one of the switches needs to be read in “run”, then 4 seconds after that the second one needs to read “run”. You also need to explain why there have been zero single engine failures of this type before this double failure.

The ghost also needs to explain why one pilot asked the other “why did you cutoff?” instead of something like “what happened to the engines?” (which is the more natural response, unless you already know the switches are in cutoff).

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#587

Post by franktankbank »

chii wrote: post #436
m101 wrote: post #387

What makes me more inclined to suicide is that this might have been the perfect time to do this so that even a small interruption in fuel would be catastrophic.

If this is the case, you have to then think about why this pilot would want suicide but also murder all aboard the plane. It's a bit irrational if they wanted to just suicide - you can easily just cut your own throat, hang yourself, or jump off a tall building.

Look at financial motive. Some insurance payout stipulation or pension obligation to his family may have been boosted by death on the job.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#588

Post by bonoboTP »

testemailfordg2 wrote: post #562

Three things:- 1) Pilot clearly said I didn't do it. 2) Report talks about the second switch being turned off in a second. 3) Known advisory on switches getting flipped. If you see these three together, it becomes easy to deduce that based on point 2, switch was not human induced as the actions required take more than a second. Next the third point, advisory was for this exact scenario which played out, though rare b…

> as the actions required take more than a second

Where do you get this from? You have to pull up the switch with two fingers and move it to the other position and put it back in. This doesn't seem to take more than a second if deliberate.

To me, it points to a Germanwings-style sabotage. And the "I didn't do it" seems to be a lie. Not very confident in it, just the likeliest to me. Though one can ask why not just push the nose down instead. Maybe he thought that's too easy for the other pilot to counteract. The fuel switches are more out-of-mind and more startling to change.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#589

Post by ajross »

testemailfordg2 wrote: post #562

Three things:- 1) Pilot clearly said I didn't do it. 2) Report talks about the second switch being turned off in a second. 3) Known advisory on switches getting flipped. If you see these three together, it becomes easy to deduce that based on point 2, switch was not human induced as the actions required take more than a second. Next the third point, advisory was for this exact scenario which played out, though rare b…

> the actions required take more than a second

Not sure where this is asserted? These aren't complicated mechanisms, it's just a pull lock, right? Pilots flip the switches twice on every flight at startup/shutdown, it's a routine action.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#590

Post by anton-c »

notpushkin wrote: post #301
maxbond wrote: post #295

I just want to call out that, whatever the facts of this case, pilot heroism is way more common than pilot murder. This is off the top of my head, so don't quote me on the precise details, I'm probably misremembering some things. But a few of my favorite examples: - British Airways 5390: An incorrect repair causes the windshield of a plane to be blown out mid flight. A pilot is nearly sucked out. The head flight atte…

Mentour Pilot is a fantastic channel.

Also green dot aviation has some great videos. Excellent animations. A calmer style. Both are great.
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