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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#401

Post by xlbuttplug2 »

melenaboija wrote: post #353

I'm completely ignorant about this matter, but why is it even possible to cut off fuel while taking off? Shouldn't there be a control that completely disables this? Is there actually a situation where cutting off both engines could be necessary and wouldn't lead to a catastrophe?

I'm assuming fuel being cut off is salvageable if not in the middle of a densely populated city, especially if above a plain or water. So it could be the favorable option in case of an engine fire.

Also, such complexity would introduce additional points of failure - as a sister comment mentions, a faulty altimeter (or whatever sensor) could prevent you from cutting off fuel when you need to.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#402

Post by lazystar »

ekianjo wrote: post #255
lanna wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fourth? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370#M...

We dont know about that one at all.

please. pilot puts everyone to sleep but himself, turns everything off, then does a flyby of his hometown and then puts himself to sleep? the only one more obvious is the german one.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#403

Post by cjbprime »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #339
Spooky23 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: why is it so difficult to fathom that a deranged pilot could decide to commit suicide by plane?

To answer your question: because it is a very rare occurence.

It's not that rare, and there are institutional factors (such as seeking treatment for psychosis being career-ending for a pilot) that incentivize serious pilot mental health crises being untreated.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#404

Post by Aeolun »

karlgkk wrote: post #242
nikanj wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airlines are decades behind on tech. You can get satellite internet almost anywhere on the planet and GPS can give you ten-foot accurate positioning, but we've still _lost_ planes because we haven't mandated a system that sends the realtime position of the plane over the satellite internet. The days of limited storage are still going strong in the industry.

There are reasons they don’t. This is a deceptively difficult problem Cost is a big one (satellite data is still quite a bit more expensive than you think, especially with many stations) And by stations, I mean aircraft. There are a TON. Current constellations probably wouldn’t even be able to handle half the current aircraft transmitting all at once. Bandwidth, in the physical sense, becomes a limiting factor Covera…

> Cost is a big one (satellite data is still quite a bit more expensive than you think, especially with many stations)

That’s nonsense. Even when I’m flying right over the north pole my airline will give me unlimited in-flight internet for $20. Maybe antartica has worse reception, but cost isn’t the issue.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#405

Post by burnt-resistor »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #377
imoverclocked wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you want a creative AI flying a plane anyway.

You can call it Schroedinger Airlines :)) You may or may not reach your destination. Or something like that.

Just leave the door closed at all times, and then there's no definitive problem.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#406

Post by cjbprime »

melenaboija wrote: post #379
Yokolos wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engine fire requires you to cut fuel to the affected engine.

Is cutting off fuel while taking off a better solution than letting them burn?

Sometimes? If you have enough altitude to trade for speed then after the cutoff you could glide to a hypothetical miraculously-placed runway right in front of you, vs. having fire quickly consume the entire plane if you don't cutoff..

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#409

Post by Aeolun »

refulgentis wrote: post #240
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of 2017 Las Vegas shooting. The perpetrator looked and acted completely normal till the day of shooting and all his issues like anxiety or losing money was nothing far from ordinary. And what seems all of a sudden did a well planned shooting and didn't bother to leave a note or tell his story.

Free memento mori: you're both free-associating. There's 0 reason to conclude murder-suicide, there's an infinitude of things that could have the same result, and both pilots denied it to eachother: how is that presented as proof ? I hope I don't need to explain why the fact no one knew in advance the Las Vegas shooter was going to shoot has ~0 similarities with the situation as we know it, and banal similarities wit…

Using that reasoning all airplane crashes have a lot in common too.

Doesn’t mean the ones where you cannot determine the reason and have to speculate don’t suck.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#410

Post by JSteph22 »

groos wrote: post #219
decimalenough wrote: post #11

> The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1 and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut off. So the fuel supply was cut off intentionally. The swi…

Suicide is quite a stretch without any supporting evidence from the pilots' backgrounds. I would take mental fog, cognitive overload, wrong muscle memory, even a defective fuel cutoff system over suicide.

>mental fog, cognitive overload, wrong muscle memor

Agreed. The sequence of events also supports this.

I believe one of the pilots made a terrible muscle memory mistake and cutoff the fuel instead of raising the landing gear. This would explain why the landing gear was never raised, why the pilot who was accused of cutting off the fuel denied it (in his mind he had only retracted the landing gear) and why the engines were turned back on after presumably realizing the mistake.

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