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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

641–650 of 924 posts

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#641

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since the…

No, it is not damning evidence or strong evidence either way. It would be strong evidence only if treatment significantly reduces the probability of a pilot's committing suicide.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#642

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since the…

>since they can't continue as pilots if they seek treatment)

You have your facts wrong. Pilots can and do fly if they have mental health diagnoses, as long as they are well managed and there is no history of psychosis or suidical ideation. This is how it should be.

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/a...

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This idea strikes me as even more unlikely than someone shifting their moving vehicle into reverse while intending to activate the window wipers. I suspect you've never driven an older vehicle with the shifter on the steering column.

The pilot wasn’t flying an unfamiliar aircraft.

I think the aircraft being familiar makes it worse: if you're used to going through a certain motion to do a thing, it may be one of things your brain can do without really thinking about it much, which is where the danger comes in.

I've engaged my wipers when meaning to shift gears before, in my truck which has a steering column shifter. After driving the truck for years. I have ADHD and I very often let my brain go on autopilot for things I do every day, and sometimes it just does the wrong thing. It doesn't matter how complicated or "intentional" the task has to be: my brain will memorize it to the point that it can execute it on its own without me consciously thinking about it.

I think it's totally plausible it was a muscle memory thing, if the at-fault pilot's brain works anything like mine.

(Side note: I actually took some flying lessons, including going through all of ground school, and realized that my brain is just not cut out for flying. I am the type of person to "cowboy" things if I feel like they're not worth doing, and flying is an activity where the tiniest missed checklist item can result in death, so I realized I have a statistically high likelihood of crashing due to some boneheaded mistake, and stopped taking lessons.)

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#644
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the nice things about finally having the preliminary report is I get to stop hearing all of the same assumptions/theories/YouTuber said/"a guy I know got a leaked report"/etc in water cooler talk at work because the preliminary report solidly disproved all of them so far. If anyone even had and stuck with an idea matching this report it wouldn't have stood out in the conversations anyways. The collection of co…

It's human nature to want to guess at possible explanations for things that are unusual and unexpected. If hearing those guesses annoys you, nobody is forcing you to read through comments on a thread of people making them! (I hope - sorry if you are being forced after all.)

[deleted]

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#645
These airplanes reject a lot of the pilot inputs if they don’t align with the expectations. Any idea why the system even allows the cut engine fuel input at that time of flight? Sounds to me that it should be just ignored. Even if both engines were on fire while climbing that early, what could cutting fuel offer?

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#646
post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just your brain associating the bathroom with the act of brushing your teeth, and therefore doing it automatically upon the trigger of entering the bathroom. It bears no resemblance to the accidental activation of a completely different button. The other poster's correction: "it’s like brushing your teeth with razor" is apt. Touching the fuel cutoff switches is not part of any procedure remotely relevant to th…

Now I'm trying to remember if I've ever picked up my razor and accidentally begun tooth brushing motions with it. Probably! More relevantly, you seem to me to be unduly confident about what this pilot's associative triggers might and might not be.

I've definitely put shaving cream on my toothbrush before.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No neither black box stores video. One stores audio on flash memory and the other stores flight details, sensors etc. I don’t think video is a bad idea. I assume there is a reason why it wasn’t done. Data wise black boxes actually store very little data (maybe a 100mbs), I don’t know if that is due to how old they are, or the requirements of withstanding extremes.

In the US, the NTSB has been recommending it for over 20 years. The pilot unions have been blocking it, due to privacy and other things. I'm not in aviation. But my between-the-lines straightforward reading is that unions see it as something with downsides (legal liability) but not much upside. It could be that there are a million tiny regulations that are known by everyone to be nonsensical, perhaps contradictory or…

If you work in a job where the lives of hundreds could be ended in seconds due to an error or intentional action then there is no excuse to not have critical control surfaces recorded at all times. Non-commercial/private flights/flight instructors and trainees have cameras, trains have camera, stores have cameras, casinos have cameras, buses have cameras, workers who work for ride hailing services have cameras as do millions of other people who just drive.

Hopefully other countries will start deploying recording systems or start forcing manufacturers of planes to have these integrated into cockpits.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#648

These airplanes reject a lot of the pilot inputs if they don’t align with the expectations. Any idea why the system even allows the cut engine fuel input at that time of flight? Sounds to me that it should be just ignored. Even if both engines were on fire while climbing that early, what could cutting fuel offer?

In case of engine fire they need to cut fuel

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone confused their steering wheel for the brake you'd probably be surprised - there are indeed errors that are essentially impossible for a competent person to make by mistake. No idea about the plane controls, though.

Even in modern "fly by wire" cars the steering wheel and brake pedal have an immediate effect. They are essentially directly connect to their respective control mechanisms. As far as I understand both of the plane controls on question just trigger sequences that are carried out automatically. So it's more like firing off the wrong backup script than scratching the wrong armpit.

The only two production cars on sale where the steering wheel is mechanically decoupled from the wheels are the cybertruck and a variant of the Lexus RX.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#650
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You move those switches down apparently. I don't think so.

Up/Forward ==> Run ==> Fuel supply is on Down/Backwards ==> Cutoff ==> Fuel supply is off https://www.reddit.com/r/indianaviation/comments/1lxxatc/fue...

I mean, there doesn’t seem to be a different amount of force necessary.
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