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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#651

Post by kalenx »

wkat4242 wrote: post #584
xeonmc wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another one: Air Canada 143 - Pilot calculated incorrect fuel due to metric/imperial unit mixup, and ran out of fuel midair. - Said pilot performed an impossible glider-sideslip maneuver to rapidly bleed airspeed just-in-time for an emergency landing at an abandoned airfield, having to completely rely on eyeballing the approach. - No fatalties or serious injuries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVvt7hP5a-0

It's not an impossible maneuver. Glider pilots do this all the time especially if they don't have spoilers

Yes. On a plane which is designed to be a good glider. I highly doubt a 767 is designed to be a glider. It's definitely not impossible (after all, it was done successfully!), but certainly a very difficult (and undocumented) one on such a plane.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#652

Post by tethys »

hollerith wrote: post #641
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #629

Assuming this is a murder-suicide and not a mistake or malfunction somehow, it's very damning of the FAA's policy to revoke the pilot's licenses of anyone seeking treatment for mental health issues. This was in India and thus not FAA jurisdiction, but it still would be a case where an untreated mental health issue lead to hundreds of deaths. By making pilots choose between their careers & medical treatment (since the…

No, it is not damning evidence or strong evidence either way. It would be strong evidence only if treatment significantly reduces the probability of a pilot's committing suicide.

> if treatment significantly reduces the probability of a pilot's committing suicide

Psychotherapy significantly reduces the risk of suicide. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6389707/

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#653

Post by svrtknst »

moralestapia wrote: post #318
alphabettsy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that doesn’t tell us they were fresh. Only that they hadn’t flown. They could’ve slept 0 hours before or any number of things.

Sure, and aliens could also be involved. However, the only relevant evidence that exists suggests they had enough rest. You don't build verdicts on suppositions, you build them on proven facts. This does not guarantee you will reach the truth, but it's miles better than admitting every baseless hypothesis that comes up.

Aren't you the one building on suppositions? We know that they don't have flight hours. We cannot conclude what condition they were in aside from that.

to jump from "they could be tired or hungover" to "yeah or aliens" is very dishonest. Especially for a very fresh matter where we know very little, all our assumptions are just that, and nothing we writes has any bearing on anything.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#654

Post by kshacker »

malfist wrote: post #551
russdill wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no possible way to confuse these two actions. There's a reason a wheel is attached to the gear lever.

The other day I was eating dinner while chatting with my partner. I finished eating and needed to pee and throw away the fast food container. I walked straight to the bathroom, raised the toilet lid and threw the fast food container right into the toilet. Weird mistakes can happen. My partner got a good laugh out of it

As I get older, I do some similar stuff, way more than past, even it is just once per month. And I guess way more when sugar is high than not. Don't know your age or medical profile and I am not a doctor, just keep an eye.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#655

Post by Rastonbury »

1over137 wrote: post #546
briandear wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landing gear controls are nothing like the fuel shutoffs. And they are in completely different locations. Landing gear controls are in front of the throttle, fuel shutoffs are aft of the throttles.

Is that "nothing like" though? You are saying they are in different places, ok, but are they similar in other ways? Are both controls the same shape? size? colour? texture?

God knows the number of times I confused my num lock key for my caps lock key, they are both keys after all!

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#656

Post by 1970-01-01 »

cjbprime wrote: post #156
russdill wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no possible way to confuse these two actions. There's a reason a wheel is attached to the gear lever.

> There is no possible way to confuse these two actions. This is obviously an overstatement. Any two regularly performed actions can be confused. Sometimes (when tired or distracted) I've walked into my bathroom intending to shave, but mistakenly brushed my teeth and left. My toothbrush and razor are not similar in function or placement.

Technically an overstatement but not by much. Correctly restated, its highly unlikely these actions were confusing pilots. It's as if you mistook flushing your toilet twice when instead you wanted to turn on the lights in your bathroom.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#657

Post by zamadatix »

swores wrote: post #376
zamadatix wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the nice things about finally having the preliminary report is I get to stop hearing all of the same assumptions/theories/YouTuber said/"a guy I know got a leaked report"/etc in water cooler talk at work because the preliminary report solidly disproved all of them so far. If anyone even had and stuck with an idea matching this report it wouldn't have stood out in the conversations anyways. The collection of co…

It's human nature to want to guess at possible explanations for things that are unusual and unexpected. If hearing those guesses annoys you, nobody is forcing you to read through comments on a thread of people making them! (I hope - sorry if you are being forced after all.)

Idle speculation is far from the only thing you won't find me supporting just because it's human nature. Thankfully, HN comment threads tend to include a lot more than just that kind of discussion, which is why I read them. Indeed there are lots of great details I didn't glean or fully understand in the report covered in the comments.

That doesn't mean I will always agree with the comments (or that everyone will always agree with mine) and that's okay. It'd be a very limited value discussion if we could only ever comment when we agree. It seems exceedingly unlikely any of this has something to do with users being forced to be here though.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#658

Post by cjrp »

18172828286177 wrote: post #609
testemailfordg2 wrote: post #562

Three things:- 1) Pilot clearly said I didn't do it. 2) Report talks about the second switch being turned off in a second. 3) Known advisory on switches getting flipped. If you see these three together, it becomes easy to deduce that based on point 2, switch was not human induced as the actions required take more than a second. Next the third point, advisory was for this exact scenario which played out, though rare b…

In this phase of flight the pilot’s hands should be nowhere near the thrust levers let alone the fuel cutoff switches. There is no way they could accidentally knock them with their hands.

They could be close for retracting the flaps. Completely different control though.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#659

Post by AdamN »

macintux wrote: post #245
747fulloftapes wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The landing gear lever is rather prominently featured in the 787 in a panel central to the cockpit layout so that either pilot can easily reach it. For decades and across many manufacturers, the landing gear lever has traditionally featured a knob that deliberately resembles an airplane wheel. It's very hard to mistake it for anything else. It's actuated by simply moving it up or down. The fuel control switches are b…

> This idea strikes me as even more unlikely than someone shifting their moving vehicle into reverse while intending to activate the window wipers. I suspect you've never driven an older vehicle with the shifter on the steering column.

Or even crazier, a manual shift on the steering column. Nothing weirder than pushing down the clutch and then changing the gear with your hand on a knob off to the side of the steering wheel.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#660

Post by varjag »

tethys wrote: post #652
hollerith wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not damning evidence or strong evidence either way. It would be strong evidence only if treatment significantly reduces the probability of a pilot's committing suicide.

> if treatment significantly reduces the probability of a pilot's committing suicide Psychotherapy significantly reduces the risk of suicide. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6389707/

Does it bring the risk of suicide to general population baseline? And if not would you still want the affected people be responsible for hundreds of lives?
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