Recently learned that one of Ben Franklin's sons was a loyalist. He fled to England after the war.
The recent series with Michael Douglas makes repeated mention of William Franklin.
Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
171–180 of 207 posts
Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
The absolute truth right here. Just go on reddit to see it any time a roadway gets blocked on protest.
Reddit is one of the most as astroturfed platforms out there.
What's a general news forum with high quality commentators you think is relatively devoid of astroturfing?
Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reddit is one of the most as astroturfed platforms out there.
What's a general news forum with high quality commentators you think is relatively devoid of astroturfing?
Honestly, I think it doesn’t exist.
But Reddit in particular is nasty about this. I think HN does a bit of a better job but the issue here is that the majority of users are generally well off. This skews the discussions.
Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Comment one: "It bothers me a great deal as an American to see this anti-authoritarian thread of American identity...." Comment two: "When Americans were “resisting authority” by not wearing masks... did you feel the same pride in anti-authority behavior then?" Comment three: "Anybody get tear-gassed for not wearing a mask?" Comment four: "Yes.... In Australia"
What are you trying to say? That it's not anti-authoritarian if you don't get tear-gassed?
The discussion was explicitly about American anti-authoritarianism, so countering with evidence of perceived government overreach in Australia is a laughably bad approach--no special pleading is required. It's a complete shifting of the goalposts, suggesting the person is really grasping at straws to make some kind of point.
Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
> what methods are you suggesting we use to keep our immigrant population tracked and controlled? You can't track and control only immigrants. Any such system would include tracking and controls of citizens, simply in order to sort them into the "not immigrant" category. Hence all the "papers please". (Not to mention the false positive problem!)
Surprise, you’re already tracked in a dozen harmless ways that enable modern life: drivers license, Social Security number, birth certificate, etc; even before you get into quasi-public records like credit reporting, bank accounts, and insurance. Acting like showing ID to an immigration official is some unprecedented intrusion is absurd. Fly domestically, shop at Costco, or buy a 6 pack of beer and you’ll end up show…
We're being downvoted but no one has offered answers to my question.
In an advanced society where citizens are tracked, and receive the benefits of that tracking, why is it somehow okay for others to not be yet to reap the benefits? Why should others immigrate the 'proper way' if one can simply walk across? I can wait until anyone here who defends the lawlessness of the past ways answers.
Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point wasn't really to compare these two situations directly. Personally, (and you can read through my post history if you'd like) I've been a staunch advocate of COVID-19 vaccines (and any vaccine really) and also of wearing masks as appropriate, but those who believed at the time that vaccine mandates were draconian government overreach literally believed they were freedom fighters just as much as those who are…
> (...) but those who believed at the time that vaccine mandates were draconian government overreach literally believed they were freedom fighters just as much (...) This is simply not true. At face value that's the literal claims the typical covid karens blurbed, but the common thread was always cynicism towards others in attempts to antagonize and outright assault anyone who didn't complied with their demands. Thos…
It was a massive country-wide persecution complex. The antimaskers loved to act like they were being persecuted, as if they were freedom fighters, defending themselves against oppression. Yet, they were the ones out there attacking everyone else who were just trying to be cooperative. And for what? Just to be performatively contrary to the mainstream. COVID's legacy is a massive, sustained, consequence-free civil disobedience campaign, but instead of being organized in service of a goal, it’s just vague anger, belligerence, and contrariness for the sake of contrariness.
Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are you trying to say? That it's not anti-authoritarian if you don't get tear-gassed?
The discussion was explicitly about American anti-authoritarianism, so countering with evidence of perceived government overreach in Australia is a laughably bad approach--no special pleading is required. It's a complete shifting of the goalposts, suggesting the person is really grasping at straws to make some kind of point.
That doesn't answer my question, which was about Americans.
> grasping at straws
So stay at home orders and gathering bans [1] aren't authoritarian? Note, I am not asking if they were justified, or necessary (or perceived as such, given the information known at the time), but if they were authoritarian.
If someone argues a point poorly, that doesn't make the point itself invalid.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_and_local_governmen...
Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Americans were “resisting authority” by not wearing masks and keeping their businesses opened despite lockdown orders did you feel the same pride in anti-authority behavior then? One person’s freedom fighter is another person’s terrorist. Always has been and always will be that way. The winning side when there is one usually gets to write the history of who was what. Do you still feel pride in American anti-auth…
Well the point of wearing a mask is mostly to protect vulnerable people, and to slow the spread of a disease. These protests are also about protecting vulnerable people. And, I would argue, to slow the spread of a disease.
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Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
The discussion was explicitly about American anti-authoritarianism, so countering with evidence of perceived government overreach in Australia is a laughably bad approach--no special pleading is required. It's a complete shifting of the goalposts, suggesting the person is really grasping at straws to make some kind of point.
That doesn't answer my question, which was about Americans. > grasping at straws So stay at home orders and gathering bans [1] aren't authoritarian? Note, I am not asking if they were justified , or necessary (or perceived as such, given the information known at the time), but if they were authoritarian . If someone argues a point poorly, that doesn't make the point itself invalid. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…
Oh, I'm not here to indulge you in some petty argument. I was just pointing out that the comment about Australia wasn't the slam dunk you made it out to be.
By all means, believe whatever you want. I doesn't bother me one bit.
Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well the point of wearing a mask is mostly to protect vulnerable people, and to slow the spread of a disease. These protests are also about protecting vulnerable people. And, I would argue, to slow the spread of a disease.
It is still an ongoing research topic if wearing masks against an airborne virus that primarily spread through aerosols does anything beyond a psychological effect of getting people to distance themselves and reducing spread that way. Airborne virus are notarial at spreading in places like planes, trains, busses, subway and buildings that recycle air. Meta studies looking at the effectiveness of early measures agains…
This is incorrect. Masks reduce the spread of airbone diseases, by capturing the majority of small particulates emitted from coughing, sneezing, or simply breathing.
The exact amount of effect mask wearing had on the spread of COVID may be interesting to study, but probably the most significant factor is whether people were actually wearing masks (e.g., in America, they weren't, not really, but in Taiwan, we were).