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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

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Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#841

Post by [deleted] »

PortiaBerries wrote: post #609
ben_w wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope Quartz: https://xkcd.com/2501/ I was raised Catholic and couldn't have even told you there'd been a single Pope Leo, let alone 13 of them before today. The only Pope quote I could even give you is the term "Ex Cathedra".

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

[deleted]

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#842

Post by graemep »

ekianjo wrote: post #774
PortiaBerries wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

Who the pope is, is not really relevant. It's not like the pope will suddenly go against the key scriptures or something. Also, most Catholics are born in catholic families so it's not like they chose catholicism over something else.

> Also, most Catholics are born in catholic families so it's not like they chose catholicism over something else.

I do not know whether that is true any more, at least in all countries. At one Catholic parish I knew in Britain about half the congregation were adult converts.

Then there are a lot of people who leave and return. I might count as that - Catholic family, was agnostic (and married in registry office, which turned out to be useful), and now am definitely a Christian but feel denomination does not matter and do not really accept much of the Catholic theology (and some of its practical consequences, such as no women priests really bother me). OTOH I have not, and would not, formally leave the church either.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#843

Post by ralgozino »

macspoofing wrote: post #607
smnrg wrote: post #605

Many Italian newspapers (example: IlPost) and, I suspect, many non-US media, report this as “the second American Pope, the first from the USA.” Which, I think, is fair, as South and Latin are also America. And so is Canada. And so was Francis. But I usually find it a hard concept to convey to my fellow local USsians.

>to my fellow local USsians. I think you illustrated why the concept exists. USA actually has "America" in its name, unlike others - hence 'Americans' and not 'USsians'.

that is not completely correct, see:

The United Provinces of the Río de la Plata (Spanish: Provincias Unidas del Río de la Plata), earlier known as the United Provinces of South America (Spanish: Provincias Unidas de Sudamérica), was a name adopted in 1816 by the Congress of Tucumán for the region of South America that declared independence in 1816, with the Sovereign Congress taking place in 1813, during the Argentine War of Independence (1810–1818) that began with the May Revolution in 1810. It originally comprised rebellious territories of the former Spanish Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata dependencies and had Buenos Aires as its capital.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Provinces_of_the_R%C3%A...

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#844

Post by lynx97 »

losvedir wrote: post #697
javiramos wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not in English. I know in the Spanish speaking world there's a single American continent, but as far as I know across the English speaking world it's taught as two continents, North and South America. We have the term "the Americas" to refer to both.

Well, in Ecuador and Peru, where I used to travel for 2 months, a lot of people were making a point of saying "América del Sur" to differentiate their place from the USA.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#845

Post by dragonwriter »

sebastiennight wrote: post #839
dragonwriter wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are two countries called the United States in North America No, actually, there aren't. > there's the United States of Mexico, and the United States of America. No, México’s formal English name (which is an exact literal translation of its Spanish name) is United Mexican States (it is Estados Unidos Mexicanos not Estados Unidos de México )

> Estados Unidos Mexicanos I think this would translate to Mexican United States ; you're mixing up the word order.

> I think this would translate to Mexican United States

If Estados Unidos existed in Spanish as a compound, non-proper, noun phrase—that is, if "a united states" was a generic name for a thing—rather than Unidos and Mexicanos both being adjectives that modify Estados, then that would be a plausible translation. But that's (1) not the case, and (2) even if it was the case, that's not how it is used in the actual official name of the country of México.

> you're mixing up the word order.

To be clear, you are asserting that the government of México messed up the word order in its own official English name.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#846

Post by graemep »

agnishom wrote: post #799

This is a good time to check the 'Views' section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_XIV#Views Some important bits: > he expressed sympathy for George Floyd and criticized U.S. immigration policies > Prevost advocated for stronger Church action against climate change > Prevost opposes the ordination of women > Prevost opposes euthanasia, abortion, and the death penalty. [...] In 2012, he criticized popular cult…

Are any of those views any different from any previous Pope?

The difference the media likes to talk about between "liberal" and "conservative" popes (and candidates) is not in the beliefs but which parts of those beliefs they communicate effectively. Perceptions are also heavily influenced by what the media choose to report (they are far more interested in some topics than others).

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#847

Post by 71bw »

mcv wrote: post #812
afavour wrote: post #97

> "Cardinal George of Chicago, of happy memory, was one of my great mentors, and he said: 'Look, until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope.' And his point was, if America is kind of running the world politically, culturally, economically, they don't want America running the world religiously. So, I think there's some truth to that, that we're such a superpower and so dominant, they do…

I've heard people expressing disappointment (or triumph) because there's an American pope now, as if that would somehow strengthen Trump's position, but I don't see how. Trump doesn't control him and the pope owes no allegiance to Trump, but as an American pope, I think American Catholics are more likely to listen to him, and I think his moderate views could do a lot of good to the extremism of US politics.

With their almost religious following of Trump, I find it more likely for them to ignore the Pope.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#848

Post by graemep »

quesera wrote: post #419
doomroot13 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't hold your breath. My whole family are staunch Catholics and disliked Francis because of his more "liberal" leanings. Some Catholics believed he was the "anti-christ" and loved Trump. Seriously.

I'm pretty sure you cease to be a Catholic when you call the Pope the anti-Christ. Infallible, God's representative on Earth, etc. Though in USAmerica, we're pretty flexible on the meaning of "Christian" anyway. Certainly the loudest proclaimers have no resemblance whatsoever to the expected meaning. Those troublesome CINOs.. Gosh Darn them to Heck.

> I'm pretty sure you cease to be a Catholic when you call the Pope the anti-Christ. Infallible, God's representative on Earth, etc.

Infallible (i.e. with the authority of a church council) only when speaking ex-cathedra on matters of church doctrine. Its never clear what it applies to and its very rarely generally accepted (maybe once every 200 years or so) that it applies to a particular teaching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility#Frequency_...

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#849

Post by netdevphoenix »

snickerbockers wrote: post #676
afavour wrote: post #97

> "Cardinal George of Chicago, of happy memory, was one of my great mentors, and he said: 'Look, until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope.' And his point was, if America is kind of running the world politically, culturally, economically, they don't want America running the world religiously. So, I think there's some truth to that, that we're such a superpower and so dominant, they do…

That's an interesting thought but if they're actually that concerned about it then they'd wait longer than four months. It probably has more to do with America's predominant religion being protestantism by a very wife margin for most of the country's existence. We didn't have a Catholic president until Kennedy and even then proving to the common American that Catholics aren't insane Vatican mindslaves was considered…

> America's predominant religion being Protestantism

Tangent: Protestantism is not a religion. The religion is called Christianity. I have seen this trend for quite a while of Protestants (or people born in Protestant countries) of referring to Christianity branches as religions. I find it very segregational. The whole point of all the branches is the same guy whose name begins with C.

But yes, given the state of America today, having an American pope will definitely be an interesting development in the context of many lobbying groups wishing for a vaticanised America.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#850

Post by dyauspitr »

agnishom wrote: post #799

This is a good time to check the 'Views' section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_XIV#Views Some important bits: > he expressed sympathy for George Floyd and criticized U.S. immigration policies > Prevost advocated for stronger Church action against climate change > Prevost opposes the ordination of women > Prevost opposes euthanasia, abortion, and the death penalty. [...] In 2012, he criticized popular cult…

He’s perfect.
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