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India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

reuters.com

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Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#541

Post by llm_nerd »

justin66 wrote: post #505
llm_nerd wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the Ukrainian government warned everyone the invasion was really going to happen Quite contrary, the Ukrainian government was publicly saying that it was all bluffing. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684 Zelensky repeatedly said that the West was creating a panic. Ukraine's repelling of the attack was heroic and legendary, but the truth is that if it wasn't for the astonishing incompetence of the Russian…

I'd forgotten about Zelensky's prewar media strategy. Whoops. Regarding Russia: did the strange televised meeting of Putin's war cabinet (whatever it would be called), wherein everyone went around the room and voted "yes" to invasion even though a couple of them looked like they were in a hostage video, happen before or after tanks rolled into Ukraine? In my mind that's a "prewar" thing but maybe I got the sequence o…

That weird meeting I think you're thinking of-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B0mWzB4GOQ

(I recalled it as well and with normal searching could not find it, even with date winnowing, but asking Gemini 2.5 Pro and it immediately gave me that resource)

This meeting happened just before the invasion. Far too late for anyone to really do anything, and long after most of the "are they/aren't they?" discussions happened. Up until that point Russia was repeatedly denying their "special military operation". Just as they denied their invasion of Crimea and their little green men in the Donbas.

As an aside, that absolutely bizarre security council meeting is virtually indistinguishable from the North Korea-style Trump administration meetings that we now see weekly, where it's a circle of embarrassingly laughable platitudes and servitudes by a cowed and pathetic administration.

>I remember thinking the white house handled communications surrounding the invasion very well

They did.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#542

Post by reverendsteveii »

enugu wrote: post #369
nblgbg wrote: post #61

I believe it's mostly overstated. Pakistan is not economically strong enough to participate in a war, and India is not interested either. However, the Modi government wants to project strength. They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. So, they targeted some areas in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK). In response, Pakistan claimed to have shot down four Indian air…

> They were unable to locate the terrorists even after two or three weeks and needed a distraction. This does not make sense. When France attacked Daesh in 2015 after the terrorist attacks in Paris or when the US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11, the objective wasn't to target the exact people who carried out the attacks, but the organization behind the attacks. People can always be found as long as the organization r…

We could have gone after the people who actually did 9/11 but that was a bit of a non-starter. Also I think you're equivocating between multiple interpretations of "the terrorists" when most people absolutely wouldn't draw a distinguishing line between, using 9/11 as an example again, the actual hijackers and Osama bin Laden. There's absolutely no question that any time the phrase "the 9/11 terrorists" is used it means both the actual perpetrators and the people who planned and supported the attack.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#543

Post by ben_w »

chgs wrote: post #435
jltsiren wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people have learned exactly the wrong lessons from the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Making people complacent with repeated false alarms is more likely the intended outcome than a failure. When I was in school, one of the history teachers spent a lot of time describing how the Yom Kippur War started. I guess he thought it told something important about how things work in the real world. The lead up to the Russian inva…

> A lot of people have learned exactly the wrong lessons from the Boy Who Cried Wolf Never tell the same lie twice?

Or https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/habit

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#544

Post by unmole »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #188
screye wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan Why would India do that? Why would a unilateral surrender of land be considered valid terms for peace? > swapping land In a fair swap, what land would Pakistan offer in exchange? > Muslims, recently Pakistan doesn't have a stellar reputation for treatment of its Muslim minorities (Ahmediyyas, Ismailis) and non-Punjabi muslims (Balochis, Pasthuns, once-Pakistani-Bengalis)…

> I'm inclined to consider India a safer nation for most muslim denominations. Come on. You can't live in India and think this seriously. Anyways, the Kashmir issue is contentious but Kashmiris never got to say whether they should be part of India or not, unlike most states and people during partition. I am very aware the full history of the region is murky and that the removal of Kashmiri Pandits from the region led…

> You can't live in India and think this seriously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ahmadis_(Pakist...

> unlike most states and people during partition

This is complete nonsense. Nobody got a say, Kashmir wasn't any different.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#545

Post by ashoeafoot »

ben_w wrote: post #539
ashoeafoot wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More important ,ever since the multipolar great games resumed , they will have customers for nukes. Trump really was the final nail on deterence reliance ..

That may be a long-term problem, but right now it's like worrying about high cholesterol during a knife fight.

Its not, you goto look at how the actors in the region act and invest. Some of the regions rich seem remarkable calm towards a muklear armed iran.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#546

Post by fakedang »

lupusreal wrote: post #392
fakedang wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If India's going imperial, why would Pakistan bother with hosting terrorist elements to provoke a hostile "belligerent" (according to you) neighbour, and letting them attack a civilian zone? Indian leadership hasn't been going on TV prior to the Pahalgam attack and putting out bellicose statements like Hindus and Muslims can't live together - Pakistan did. Also India isn't stupid to invade a nuclear armed country wit…

> If India's going imperial, why would Pakistan bother with hosting terrorist elements to provoke a hostile "belligerent" (according to you) neighbour, and letting them attack a civilian zone Underlaying this line of reasoning is an assumption that Pakistan makes coordinated, coherent, and more or less rational decisions. But Pakistan is run by the military with civilian leadership being a farcical fig leaf. They rou…

Exactly my point. A single terrorist attack is no grounds for India going "imperial". India has always been very predictable. Pakistan on the other hand remains a volatile mess, and some rogue elements push shit like this once in a while. Except this time, the rogues are the ones ruling. All this does is make Pakistan a pariah state further. Even the Gulf states stood with India this time, when usually they stand on the sidelines and send mere condolences.

On a side note, the Gulf states being involved in negotiations pretty much means the end of the US as a diplomatic hegemon for the region.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#547

Post by SanjayMehta »

arp242 wrote: post #442
jajko wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a country almost 3x bigger than Europe, 4x bigger than US, and brutally diverse. Thousands of languages and tribes. People from west are very different to east, north and south is same. People who haven't experienced it first hand (or at least grokked the numbers properly) can't fathom how huge it is not just geographically but culturally. There is a reason why India is often referred to as subcontinent and peopl…

> Sikh conflict you may be referring to are events from 1984 IIRC. The 70s and 80s were the most intense, but it's far from isolated to just that period. There was a major row with Canada just last year because, according to Canada, the Indian government has been killing Sikh separatists in Canada.[1] Since there is no historical adversity between Canada and India, Canada has nothing to gain by seeking conflict and g…

The Canadian connection is historical, goes back to 1900s when a British agent William Hopkinson infiltrated the Ghadar movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Hopkinson

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#548

Post by Detrytus »

sofixa wrote: post #490
anticodon wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putin had already attacked multiple countries before. Georgia, Chechnya As always, westerners leave in an information bubble. Chechnya was always a part of Russia. It was a civil war. Ukraine was always a part of Russia until 1991, btw, there was never a separate country called "Ukraine" before 1991 - you can easily find that even in Western history books, although I'm sure they'll be rewritten in some way soon, if…

> As always, westerners leave in an information bubble. Chechnya was always a part of Russia. It was a civil war. Ukraine was always a part of Russia until 1991, btw, there was never a separate country called "Ukraine" before 1991 - you can easily find that even in Western history books, although I'm sure they'll be rewritten in some way soon, if not already. While this is categorically not true (WWI, the Ukrainian S…

> Ukraine was always a part of Russia until 1991, btw, there was never a separate country called "Ukraine" before 1991

For very limited definition of "always" - Ukraine existed in different forms since like 9th century, including being a part of Duchy of Lithuania, and then Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, until 1795. Then in 1918 western Ukraine became part of Poland again. Ukraine with the borders as we know them today (OK, pre-2014) was created after WWII, as a part of Soviet Union.

So no, Ukraine was never "a part of Russia", excluding the short periods when Russia conquered them by force.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#549

Post by __s »

sanmon3186 wrote: post #321
ptek wrote: post #307

How does this war affect US companies moving their manufacturing from China to India? Will they stay in China to carry on manufacturing? Will Apple extend manufacturing in China?

Almost none. Even if this situation prolongs, it will only affect the bordering areas in the north. India cannot afford a war if it wants to grow as it projects itself on the international stage as an alternative to China. Pakistan cannot afford it financially.

To put size in perspective: India is 7th largest country, half the size of Australia, or a third the size of US

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#550

Post by hnpolicestate »

sofixa wrote: post #483
somenameforme wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a peer mentioned, the 'Kiev will fall in 3 days' came from Mark Milley (US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time), not Russia. Beyond that, the decision was then near immediately made to lock all men of "fighting age" in the country, prevent them from leaving, and begin mass conscription. This is something that I hope, in the future, will be seen as no less barbaric than slavery. If people want to figh…

> There's many things in this world I would be willing to die for, but a country > human rights I see where there is a gap in your understanding. Ukrainians and the Ukrainian army aren't fighting for the abstract concept of a geopolitical entity (the country of Ukraine), they're fighting for their people, culture, language, existence, safety, freedom. Russia is proudly performing a genocide in Ukraine [1], and Putin…

This doesn't sound factual to me. The children you quoted as being "kidnapped" lived in regions of Russia that voted to secede from Ukraine. They are defacto Russian citizens. Their parents voted for it.
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