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India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

reuters.com

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Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#181

Post by JumpCrisscross »

screye wrote: post #129
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India wants peace Not really. There are options for a negotiated peace that involves swapping land, specifically, ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan and setting borders along rivers. That's anathema in India because there is broad-based antipathy towards Islamabad, historically, and Muslims, recently.

> ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan Why would India do that? Why would a unilateral surrender of land be considered valid terms for peace? > swapping land In a fair swap, what land would Pakistan offer in exchange? > Muslims, recently Pakistan doesn't have a stellar reputation for treatment of its Muslim minorities (Ahmediyyas, Ismailis) and non-Punjabi muslims (Balochis, Pasthuns, once-Pakistani-Bengalis)…

> Why would a unilateral surrender of land be considered valid terms for peace?

Because you trade it for more than it's worth to you. America gave up the Philippines, for example. Every decolonisation effort could accurately be described as "a unilateral surrender of land."

> what land would Pakistan offer in exchange?

You'd probably need China to participate. Maybe Siachen or even areas of Sindh? It's a long shot. One of the elements would almost certainly be co-ordinated anti-terrorist policing. Maybe guaranteed by China.

> I'm inclined to consider India a safer nation for most muslim denominations

I am, too. But let's be honest, neither side is concerned with the wellbeing of anyone in Kashmir.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#183

Post by sandspar »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #127
sandspar wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask a random Indian in India whether he'd be willing to die for the US. The US and China have interests in the area, so maybe I shouldn't have said the word "orthogonal". But the original commenter said a conflict between India and Pakistan would be a "US-China proxy war". Come on. India and Pakistan have enough reasons to hate each other. They don't need America or China's goading. And neither India nor Pakistan wou…

> Ask a random Indian in India whether he'd be willing to die for the US Not how proxy wars work. > India and Pakistan have enough reasons to hate each other. They don't need America or China's goading Not how proxy wars work. The backers enable. The proxies fight. > neither India nor Pakistan would accept their conflict being characterized as a US-China war This is how proxy wars work. They literally don’t if the pr…

[flagged]

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#184

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

kumarvvr wrote: post #176
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't proof that this terrorist attack was directed by Pakistan. The terrorists themselves haven't been caught. India also supports terrorists in Pakistan (like the BLA who took hostages on a train a few months back), allegedly. There's no morally superior actor here, unfortunately. EDIT: There are many other strange things about the parent comment like why are you upset about the word "militant" instead of "te…

> There isn't proof that this terrorist attack was directed by Pakistan Their defense minister admitted to it a few days ago to a Western Media channel.

I would encourage you to be very skeptical when you hear inflammatory things with vague details like this. If it were true, wouldn’t you have heard which Western media channel it was?

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#185

Post by riffraff »

kumarvvr wrote: post #176
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't proof that this terrorist attack was directed by Pakistan. The terrorists themselves haven't been caught. India also supports terrorists in Pakistan (like the BLA who took hostages on a train a few months back), allegedly. There's no morally superior actor here, unfortunately. EDIT: There are many other strange things about the parent comment like why are you upset about the word "militant" instead of "te…

> There isn't proof that this terrorist attack was directed by Pakistan Their defense minister admitted to it a few days ago to a Western Media channel.

Which media outlet? This is a big claim given even after these attacks the Pakistani government claims it didn't.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#186

Post by pmontra »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #162
nblgbg wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I understand your skepticism, but realistically, I don't see the case. Pakistan is in a very bad situation. The U.S. has cut off a lot of funding over the past decate. They were on the verge of bankruptcy a couple of years ago, and China bailed them out.

New proxy war between US-aligned India and China-supported Pakistan? My understanding is that China and India don't tend to get along politically.

China and India are still formally at war since the 60s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War and there is an ongoing dispute over territories in the east of India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute

The latter still makes the news in the West sometimes, not every year. HNers from those countries might give us some insights about how much their people feel it important.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#187

Post by anukin »

devsda wrote: post #118
mardifoufs wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are your sources mostly Indian sources? Do you think those are somehow less biased than whatever sources I use? Also you can check my post history if you really want to, I always call out "we are just fighting terror" arguments. But still, I hope you realize that what India sees as terrorism in this case (which means Kashmiri separatism, which again I agree is mostly a Pakistani funded thing) is very tied to Indian n…

I said I'll refrain from replying in this post anymore (apologies dang) but I'll just close it with this at the risk doxxing myself as I may have mentioned the following in another forum. > But India would never recognize any form of separatism (peaceful or violent) from the Kashmir anyways, and will label it as terrorism anyways regardless It was never limited to within kashmir. Other parts of India were also attack…

You should probably sit this one out like you claimed you will be doing.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#188

Post by aprilthird2021 »

screye wrote: post #129
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India wants peace Not really. There are options for a negotiated peace that involves swapping land, specifically, ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan and setting borders along rivers. That's anathema in India because there is broad-based antipathy towards Islamabad, historically, and Muslims, recently.

> ceding Muslim-dominant territory to Pakistan Why would India do that? Why would a unilateral surrender of land be considered valid terms for peace? > swapping land In a fair swap, what land would Pakistan offer in exchange? > Muslims, recently Pakistan doesn't have a stellar reputation for treatment of its Muslim minorities (Ahmediyyas, Ismailis) and non-Punjabi muslims (Balochis, Pasthuns, once-Pakistani-Bengalis)…

> I'm inclined to consider India a safer nation for most muslim denominations.

Come on. You can't live in India and think this seriously.

Anyways, the Kashmir issue is contentious but Kashmiris never got to say whether they should be part of India or not, unlike most states and people during partition. I am very aware the full history of the region is murky and that the removal of Kashmiri Pandits from the region led to the current broad swath of support for Kashmiri independence (or becoming a part of Pakistan, either way being separate from India), but the current situation is what it is, and until that is resolved it will continue to be an issue in India.

> Pakistan's historic terror attacks have been deep in India soil

India is said to sponsor Balochistan separatism as well, those groups have also made attacks deep into Pakistan, so again, no indication that either side will remain peaceful if the Kashmiri conflict ended.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#189

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #69
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India calls this a targeted strike so for now at least they don't seem to be messaging a strong stance on expanding the strike.

"Targeted strike" is meaningless PR-speak and the concern wouldn't be India expanding the strike, it would be Pakistan retaliating and then India retaliating to the retaliation and so on until someone's finger is hovering over a big red "LAUNCH" button and the rest of us have to take a keen interest in how much iodine we're consuming. I and a lot of other people have been calling "India and Pakistan get into it again…

> The US just emptied even more munitions at the Houthis (largely accomplishing nothing)

It got drowned out because it happened today as well, but the US announced that they’re going to stop because Oman helped negotiate a ceasefire that will protect Red Sea shipping.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#190

Post by xlinux »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #162
nblgbg wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I understand your skepticism, but realistically, I don't see the case. Pakistan is in a very bad situation. The U.S. has cut off a lot of funding over the past decate. They were on the verge of bankruptcy a couple of years ago, and China bailed them out.

New proxy war between US-aligned India and China-supported Pakistan? My understanding is that China and India don't tend to get along politically.

I don't know what you are drinking but America funded Pakistan and have been supporting it. How do you think they got f16 for free
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