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East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

maxhertzberg.co.uk

221–230 of 256 posts

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must admit I'm struggling to see the problem. If someone is hostile or prejudiced against people of a certain race, sexual orientation or disability then they should be excluded from jobs working with those people.

The problem here is that I could go to the police, report Tony Edgecombe as he told me at the coffee machine that devs who use 4 spaces instead of tabs are pure human scum who should be deported, and it will be written in your file. You then have no way to erase it. The problem with thinking that such practice is totally ok, is that one day it will turn against you. Pro-Palestine liberals discovered this at their exp…

>The problem here is that I could go to the police, report Tony Edgecombe as he told me at the coffee machine that devs who use 4 spaces instead of tabs are pure human scum who should be deported, and it will be written in your file. You then have no way to erase it.

The police would laugh at you before they sent you on your way.

Dig a little deeper on any of the examples you see posted here and you will find people inciting violence or racial hatred. We have had laws against this stuff for fifty years.

>Pro-Palestine liberals discovered this at their expense after the Trump election and the recent crackdown on their movement.

We aren't the US.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then how about empowering them to - speak? The strain of anti intellectualism has been a constant thread... nurtured by the false notion that democracy means my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge - Isaac Asimov Being able to speak is not the same as having something to say. Knowing when to shut up is an important part of being a rational adult. > I'm talking about the practice of democracy, by the way. Nor…

> Given that you seem to like etymology, I'm sure you'll enjoy to know that the modern acception of "intellectuals" was coined by Maurice Barrès. Here is a translation: "Nothing is worse than these gangs of half-intellectuals. A half-culture destroys instinct without replacing it with consciousness. All these aristocrats of thought are keen to show that they do not think like the vile crowd. We see it all too well. T…

> Which is quite in line with your thought that the masses are not to be trusted they must shut up

Did you just quote a Nazi about how intellectuals are a problem and we should get rid of them? Like how ar eyou so intune with fascism that you somehow quote one of the fathers of ethnic nationalism, a guy who came up with incredible heinous stuff about the jews and had some weird hard on about spain being some kinf of African enclave in europe.

You know he believed the same anti intellectualist nonsense that gave birth to "lets shoot people with glasses" in east asia right?

> and should be shepherded very closely by gifted individuals (like you) to avoid any wrongthink.

god no, its so much better to let a dude tell you that the jews want to replace you with black people and should be all murdered. That is certainly a better political theory after all the mass is right and we write for a newspaper that does not influence public opinion. Do you see the grift being repeated nowadays or are you still not noticing?

> And freedom of speech allows to express yourself when those imbalances become too strong

somehow its always predominantly powerful groups who both feel they have been hurt by the imbalance. spending 400 million a year on a think tank about how your 300 million a year tax bill is too high is certainly a strategy that only the Koch brother could understand. Then again Robert Murdoch spent almost no money in making a jewish person the next evil mastermind with Soros and that worked with almost no effort, he actually made billions of fox and daily mail so I guess some hatred does pay off.

> Poor white people speaking out in the UK is often bellitled by elites as racism.

what the fuck are you talking about? Priti Patel,on rishi sunaks goverment, was on TV telling poor whites they were gonna send brown people like her mom to a prision on Rwanda.

Like a billioanire president, with a multi millionaire immigrant minister telling white people they were gonna deport themselves happend. And I dont know what more elite than that you can get.

> if you had read the wikipedia link

You should read the 5 reports on the case. might get you a bit farther than the wikipedia page.

> you would have known that Tommy Robinson has nothing to do here

Why would tommy rbinson show up there? The media was silent so a neo nazi spent 5 years doing youtube videos and tweeting is not something that belongs in wikipedia. Its something that you should look up and think about the repercussions yourself.

The media could not talk about the case, so he tainted the well by creating the narrative. By the time the police inquiry was released it was too late because he had already fucked up all the headlines. In the 2001 Weir inquiery political correctness and race never show up. In the 2020 report the police say it was a key issue. You can trace the before and after of Tommy Robinsons involvement, in the 2 reports before it does not show up weir and haile. In the jay one 2013 it shows up as a potential issue, but not found to be significant in the conclusiosn and by 2020 the internal police report they claim it was a big deal.

The narrative was shaped and the police found a scapegoat. Jayne Seniors who reported the case endlessly from 2002 to 2007 and got an MBE after, said she was met with indifference and no one mentioned the race of the perpetrators.

> the case was brought by a feminist activist. Maybe feminists should shut up, too?

the case was brought up by a thousand people, it went on from the 70s. The police ignored all calls from working class girls, they ignored video evidence, they ignored the findings of Anne Halls in 2004, the report of Weir and haile in 2001 and 2004, they ignored the letter a girl wrote to a judge describing the process and actions taking place. The only person they didnt ignore was the journalist who made the story national news.

> I get that you want to jail many people for thinking and saying things you don't like.

I dont, the law was brought up by conservatives who had their feelings hurt.

> Don't whine because Trump jails pro-palestinian protesters, then?

wait but you said america had free speech and uk is a total ussr hell hole? So now you agree that IT IS happening and free speech does not exist in america and you dont care. So you were pretending all along?

> I don't care who passed those ridiculous gagging laws in Britain

you should, because you spent the entire time talking about the woke brigade, and how america has freedom of speech. and its untrue in both counts

> the same laws were passed by well-meaning centrists,

the laws were passed by authoritarian right wingers who needed vague laws to jail disruptive protests. and as per usual libertarians only showed up when bigots where affected. Only liberty you care is about offending and bieng racist then you dont care about freedom of speech, you care about freedom of consequences

> then used by nazis.

like your friend Barres? The national socialist of france who hated democracy and you decided to use as an example somehow. No to liberal democracy, yes to antisemitism to unite france. What a brilliant thinker you have in your quiver. Is Goebells gonna be your next text? Or do you prefer to use obscure writers so people dont notice, maybe Corradini? Or has stormfront not given you access to the italian writers yet?

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#223
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "far right" or people being "whipped up". Disorder is a consequence of failed government policy. E.g. from 2023: "Northern seaside town now a 'powder keg' over asylum seeker tensions" "The tension in Skegness has grown after hundreds of migrants from the Middle East, Africa and Albania were crammed into former tourist hotels on the seafront." "Cars have been vandalised, shop windows broken, mattresses set…

> There is no "far right" or people being "whipped up". The wikipedia page about the riots has 127 mentions of "far-right" [0]. From the very start there were links between the protestors and organisations like the EDL. The online misinformation was spread by far-right influencers such Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins, and Andrew Tate, as well as a host of global right-wing accounts. The organisation Alliance4Europe whi…

Was the misinformation even material? The perpetrator of the Southport stabbings was the child of recent African immigrants, so I don't see how the true facts of the case would have calmed any right-wing unrest.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is that I could go to the police, report Tony Edgecombe as he told me at the coffee machine that devs who use 4 spaces instead of tabs are pure human scum who should be deported, and it will be written in your file. You then have no way to erase it. The problem with thinking that such practice is totally ok, is that one day it will turn against you. Pro-Palestine liberals discovered this at their exp…

>The problem here is that I could go to the police, report Tony Edgecombe as he told me at the coffee machine that devs who use 4 spaces instead of tabs are pure human scum who should be deported, and it will be written in your file. You then have no way to erase it. The police would laugh at you before they sent you on your way. Dig a little deeper on any of the examples you see posted here and you will find people…

Yes, it was a joke. That said, you don't get the point - it's arbitrary and there is no way to prove that it's true. Yet, it will still be recorded. And yeah, saying once something wrong shouldn't follow you all your life. This is classic legal harassment and intimidation, similar to what was practiced in the USSR against ethnic minorities.

Regarding pro-Palestine protests, it was an example about how being fine with freedom of speech restrictions can come back and bite you in the ass. It always does.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the dozens of towns in the scandals have the same perpetrators The police disagree. The reports on the issue find that the most common race reported is white man. > It is a qualitatively different issue: we’re talking about organized gangs of foreign-origin perpetrators raping thousands of girls in each of these towns. just to be clear most of those cases the perpetraros were british, they were just of asia…

They are there because the British government made a deliberate policy decision to bring them there. It is perfectly reasonable to ask if this policy decision was in the best interests of the populace at large. Immigration (and emigration) are not sacred cows above political debate. Nor did the existence of the British Empire necessitate it; that's simply a post-hoc rationalization of the policies that British politi…

> to bring them there.

jesus so you do not actually know the history of your own country. Travel and emigration between Commonwealth states has a number of conditions, that while easier to navigate that complete immigration are still conditional on a huge number of factors.

> It is perfectly reasonable to ask if this policy decision was in the best interests of the populace at large.

considering every economic metric has increased since the 1950s and that since the 2008 recession economic growth is basically linear with immigration numbers, one would easily argue that yes. the primary interest of the population is the economy, the economy grows with immigration thus those two are convergent interests.

> Immigration (and emigration) are not sacred cows above political debate

sure, but not understanding why there are asian people in the UK, not understanding colonialism, not understanding migration patterns, or how immigration ACTUALLY works (they do not bring them over, they come themselves). Means that it is less of a debate and more of a class I would have to teach to get you up to speed first.

The reason you do not debate quantum physics with a 4 year old are not because they are beyond debate

> Nor did the existence of the British Empire necessitate it

it is debatable whether there is a moral requierement over conquered countries. Many empires would argue that citizenship is inarguable, as you are a colony, you are roman or macedonian. other empires would not allow full citizenship but allow travel and belonging to the empire, such as the spanish and british empires. Some more critical political actors would argue that once you conquer someone and subjogate them you have a responsability and a debt to that people.

however you cut it, the existance of the british rule over india and pakistan inexcusably link both countries, to the point where people moving between them is so expected it might as well be a necessity.

> that's simply a post-hoc rationalization of the policies that British politicians implemented.

no the discussions of the structure, and belonging of the countries and citizens of the commonwealth predate the political policies that increased migration by centuries

> I realize that in England you are not allowed to think in these terms

reform was ahead of the polls last year, the daily mirror and the sun are the most read newspapers. Why are you all so absurdly whinny about how you are not allowed to do what you actiively do and think and say every day.

> it's all unmitigated good and beyond the pale to even consider it

In what universe is this the case? Anti immigration platforms have had a strong support in the uk for decades. This country started the skin head movement as a far right, nativist, racist violent subculture. None of that makes any sense in a country where people cant even consider immigration as nothing but positive

> I also don't think it's productive to pretend British is not an ethnicity as well as a nationality.

and you can think that, but that does not make people not native or not english. you can say they are culturally not english, or have asian heritage. But that does not make someone foreign born, or not native.

Most british people now are way less "ethnically" british than 50 years ago. Cockney is gone, chinese and indian have replaced chippies and eel pies as working class takeaways, the conservative party has had 3 women and an indian guy in a row, the mayor of the city which brings all the money in has indian heritage.

And you can feel threatened by that, but Southport and Costwolds bring fuck all to the economy nowadays, regardless of how much you mystithise the posh brit with his hunting jacket and greyhound.

> Even in terms of culture or nationality it seems pretty meaningless when you don't have strict assimilationist policies.

yeah no, none of them have assimilated, there is no way you can find asian people in british pubs, running pubs, running councils, running the country, heading banks and hospitals. You will never find a british indian doctor, its crazy all they do is dance bollywood songs and make grooming gangs. If not for you and your brave opinions no one would have ever said anythign. How brave of you to just repeat racist lies, say that 10% of the people of the country cant assimilate and take no pride in the history of your own country or understanding of the history and significance of the commonwealth agreements

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That certainly doesn't meet the threshold for a credible threat. It's a despicable thing to say, and it seems like even she realized that when she calmed down and deleted it. But what's the basis for treating it as a crime?

From OP's post, it wasn't treated as a crime. I would absolutely expect a background check to reveal statements like that, that people voluntarily, publicly post.

No, that was a separate detail in OP's post. According to the second link, the woman who tweeted that received a 31-month sentence, as the post says: "the wrong social media post can carry a lengthy jail sentence".

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sharing the message because it brings me joy to have it shown to more people. I think it's a pretty reprehensible thing to say. I'm sure people say worse into their personal diary or even among friends and that is not criminalized. I might possibly even consider the defense of "oh nobody really reads my posts anyway and I deleted it quickly". But I absolutely will not stand for trying to claim that the post w…

Hate is a normal thing in human societies. Freedom of speech also encompasses expressing hatred and negative feelings. What you can do to mitigate it is to solve the problems that create hate. In the case of the UK, addressing the mass-rapes of British girls, among other things. Sending people to prison for social media posts is a typical totalitarian move, similar to what you find in China, North Korea or Russia. No…

Lots of countries outlaw hate speech. I know that Americans tend to think that this is a slippery slope to totalitarianism, but much of the rest of the world disagrees. And America in its present state isn't a great advertisment for its own particular model of public discourse and political freedom.

Obviously, you can also be jailed in the US for social media posts that break the law. Here is one example:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/social-media-influencer...

It's tasteless to bring up rape cases that are irrelevant here. The tweet we're talking about was posted in the wake of the Southport stabbings. Nobody can seriously suggest that historical failures to investigate rape cases in Pakistani communities can be related to an outburst decades later about burning down hotels housing asylum seekers.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it goes in depth to explain cancel culture in campu which is why it opens up with its most harrowing tale, to really grip the readers attention. The black tie christmas invites of upper middle class chemical undergrads > the article says that he would be fined for not calling someone with their invented pronouns. the law however did not. It was adding gender expression to the list of protected categories. Which the…

Sources for your allegations ? The statistics I saw, showed in contrary an increase in suicide rates. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11063965/ Even if it was lower, I'm not sure that it's the right treatment. Of course, cutting arms will solve most finger infections, but it isn't likely to be the best way to treat it. By the way, UK supreme court defined what is a biological sex: the one you had when you we…

> Sources for your allegations ?

not an allegation. You should avoid big words if you dont know what they mean.

> The statistics I saw, showed in contrary an increase in suicide rates. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11063965/

Surgery is not a common part of transitioning. Transitioning treatment, which is what I said, is usually a process where the most common plans include hormone replacement therapy, puberty blockers and therapy and lifestyle changes.

If you want actual data on it there was a recent meta study "Suicide-Related outcomes following gender-affirming treatment: A review" by Danial Jackson.

They analysed 23 studies and almost all mention and quantify reduced suicidiliaty, from less ideation, to less attempts, to less overall suicides compared to control groups.

> Even if it was lower, I'm not sure that it's the right treatment

you might not but every doctor association has, and they agree it is.

> Of course, cutting arms will solve most finger infections, but it isn't likely to be the best way to treat it.

cool analogy, but taking reversible pills and going to therapy is not the same as chopping anything off

> UK supreme court defined what is a biological sex: the one you had when you were born.

yeah thats cool and all, except sex assigned at birth is wrong in 1/2000 cases. So 34,000 people in the UK had their sex changed by a doctor after the one they were born due to either error, intersex conditions or nonconclusive genital development.

Btw genital inspection is one 3 ways to "biologically" determine someones sex, the other two are chromosomal make up (XX, XY or intersex) and the third is Phenotipic developemnt (long hair and boobs or beard and bald). The judge does not explain which one he means, but none of those 3 categories are Binary they are all Binomial. I know its not important for the judge, but it is important for biology, so its perhaps important that he would know anything past Grade 6 biology before putting it on a ruling...

> if there are spaces for girls only, it's for a reason, and one of them is to keep perverts away.

and how does this work exactly? Like actually going through the implementation of it. You need to prove you belong in an all womens space, so someone inspects your bits to make sure you belong? Like a little girl wants to go to the loo, but she must first go through the V inspector to make sure she can pee sitting down?

Is this the pervert protected future you imagine?

Transmen going to women only spaces is also gonna be a shitshow regardless of what their birth certificate says

If this guy walked into any women's bathroom they would call the police

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2015/04/19/dsc_0636_slide-c...

There are almost 0 cases of transpeople being perverts, 99% of them just wanna live their life and just exist. If they go to women spaces is probably to escape from the same problems that women go to those spaces for.

Or do you think this girl is safe in a mens bathroom?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/euphoria-hbo/images/d/d4/H...

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are there because the British government made a deliberate policy decision to bring them there. It is perfectly reasonable to ask if this policy decision was in the best interests of the populace at large. Immigration (and emigration) are not sacred cows above political debate. Nor did the existence of the British Empire necessitate it; that's simply a post-hoc rationalization of the policies that British politi…

> to bring them there. jesus so you do not actually know the history of your own country. Travel and emigration between Commonwealth states has a number of conditions, that while easier to navigate that complete immigration are still conditional on a huge number of factors. > It is perfectly reasonable to ask if this policy decision was in the best interests of the populace at large. considering every economic metric…

The UK on a per capita GDP PPP basis is as poor, or poorer, than the poorest US state, Mississippi. [1] Immigration, trade policy, privatization, and financialization have cut the working class population off at the knees. It's an economically miserable country temporarily sustained only by the continued extraction of wealth in London, activity that continues only through inertia. This should be shocking given the starting point.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/britain-mi...

Even side from that, I think the view that a country's good is defined by GDP is entirely wrong.

Re: your migration comments, immigration is a matter of public policy. It is not possible unless the state encourages and allows it. It isn’t something that just happens because other people want to come.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that you seem to like etymology, I'm sure you'll enjoy to know that the modern acception of "intellectuals" was coined by Maurice Barrès. Here is a translation: "Nothing is worse than these gangs of half-intellectuals. A half-culture destroys instinct without replacing it with consciousness. All these aristocrats of thought are keen to show that they do not think like the vile crowd. We see it all too well. T…

> Which is quite in line with your thought that the masses are not to be trusted they must shut up Did you just quote a Nazi about how intellectuals are a problem and we should get rid of them? Like how ar eyou so intune with fascism that you somehow quote one of the fathers of ethnic nationalism, a guy who came up with incredible heinous stuff about the jews and had some weird hard on about spain being some kinf of…

> Maurice Barrès wasn't a Nazi, and was a famous novelist of the XIXth century. He was part of the Académie Française, which is the most respected cultural body of the country. In this quote, he isn't against intellectualism, but against intellectuals thinking that they form a second society above the plebs, and who think better than them. Your ad hominem arguments are ignorant here, sorry.

> You seem to lack media litteracy. Pritti Patel did nothing and the UK witnessed its largest immigration flow during the last conservative rule. Saying things is worthless if not followed by actions.

> I talked about Robinson because you brought it up, and now it's my fault? lmao

> I agree that free speech is decreasing in America. However, it's still much better in the US than in UK.

> "I dont, the law was brought up by conservatives who had their feelings hurt." -> You just said that you wanted to jail neo-nazis in the previous post.

> "authoritarian right wingers" - very good example of the overton window theory. UK conservatives are centrists at best.

> Barrès is not my "friend", I'm citing him for the historical perspective on what an "intellectual" is, in the concept of "anti-intellectuallism". Sorry for you if you have a hard time thinking with abstract objects that don't involve qualifiying anyone you don't agree with of being a "nazi".

As a side note, quite revealing that of this flurry of comments, lacks the one regarding the working-class whites being the category that benefits the less from the school system. Maybe UK could have invested more in schools, and less in gender-affirming transitions?

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