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East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

maxhertzberg.co.uk

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Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#161

Post by Arkhaine_kupo »

Saline9515 wrote: post #157
Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the message in question had a limited reach, then it should not lead to a conviction. her husband shares a prominent political position. Her reach and views way larger than her twitter following. By association alone she has authoritative voice. If Melania Trump was tweeting about racist things, how quickly she deletes the tweet would not be the main issue to give a prominent example

If Melania posts some distasteful ideas, she won't go to prison since US citizens have freedom of speech, unlike in the UK and their Orwellian laws.

> US citizens have freedom of speech

just a reminder that anti protest laws now allow people to be send to prision for speech. But I guess as long as hippie looking they/them who are pro palestine at uni go to jail instead of racist white people then the US does not have Orwellian laws.

Please never actually read the book or else you might need to stop using it as a adjective because doublethink is what you are actively doing right now

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#162

Post by Saline9515 »

input_sh wrote: post #139
EnPissant wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an example of police ignoring death threats. It references Harry Potter, and JK Rowling is the most common target of the "TERF" epithet. In any case, it supports the claim that the UK police selectively enforce speech laws.

Ah so nobody called for the death of JK Rowling, but terfs in general, which she happens to be? A death threat by nonintrinsic affiliation if you will? Seems pretty stupid if you ask me. Perhaps she could not make it her whole identity so that when people say "death to this specific type of bigotry", random people on the internet don't immediately make the logical leap to think people wish for her death specifically?

Hate speech laws are a very convenient tool for an authoritarian regime as their application is totally subjective. You could argue that saying "death to terfs" would mean only to end an ideology, but "death to Islam" would send you in prison as you are threatening muslims. In general, it's the same thing, but depending on the prevailing ideology, Police and courts can apply it selectively.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#163

Post by lifestyleguru »

1718627440 wrote: post #155
lifestyleguru wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The birthday party with Stasi members dressed up as the individuals they spy on is really brutal, the costumes themselves were likely confiscated from their victims. Stereotypically confirming that "German sense of humor is not a laughing matter". There is always a brutally cynical undertone in their jokes.

Are you just taking internal jokes of a repressive regime as representative for a country?

Most of bureaucrats of any 20th century regime, first or second half the century, remained working within country's structures after the fall of the regime. If not for government officially, then at least in law, debt collection, or security industries. The general attitude hadn't changed only because the regime failed.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#164

Post by 1718627440 »

zwaps wrote: post #88
sixhobbits wrote: post #54

How does one reconcile the idea that the Stasi disappeared political opponents regularly but also engaged in weird stuff like moving people's socks around. > The final stages entailed psychological and physical harassment: moving things around at home (one morning the alarm clock goes off at 5am instead of 7am, and the socks are in the wrong drawer, there’s no coffee left …); damage to bikes and vehicles (eg slashing…

The question you ask is really important, because it shows how devious the Stasi regime was and why it lasted half a century. Why would they do this? Why would they go through these lengths to destroy a person so entirely they wouldn't even need to disappear them? The Stasi knew that power is never that absolute. The GDR was built upon the idea that is was good, not evil (like the West). You can't be good and regular…

The song predates the GDR by at least a century though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Gedanken_sind_frei

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#165

Post by DonHopkins »

1718627440 wrote: post #155
lifestyleguru wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The birthday party with Stasi members dressed up as the individuals they spy on is really brutal, the costumes themselves were likely confiscated from their victims. Stereotypically confirming that "German sense of humor is not a laughing matter". There is always a brutally cynical undertone in their jokes.

Are you just taking internal jokes of a repressive regime as representative for a country?

British jokes can be deadly, too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeMnPyusuBE

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#166

Post by leereeves »

saagarjha wrote: post #104
okeuro49 wrote: post #25

In the UK there is "social media intelligence", where AI systems scan the firehose of messages as they appear. [1] So people have been arrested for posting something online, even if nobody appears to have seen it, and they delete it shortly after. The policing is selective, depending on political view. For example, there were recently people with placards in London calling for the death of JK Rowling, which is de fac…

You put hateful in quotes but I do want to point out that this is the tweet from the thing you linked: > Mass deportation now, set fire to all the f*** hotels full of the bastards for all I care …. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it

That certainly doesn't meet the threshold for a credible threat.

It's a despicable thing to say, and it seems like even she realized that when she calmed down and deleted it. But what's the basis for treating it as a crime?

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#167

Post by nickdothutton »

tossandthrow wrote: post #142
saagarjha wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put hateful in quotes but I do want to point out that this is the tweet from the thing you linked: > Mass deportation now, set fire to all the f*** hotels full of the bastards for all I care …. I feel physically sick knowing what these families will now have to endure. If that makes me racist so be it

> So people have been arrested for posting something online, even if nobody appears to have seen it, and they delete it shortly after. The message you are quoting is now being propagated,which is unfortunate. Most of the western world is moving to a risk based legal system and has a proportionaly measure build in. If the message in question had a limited reach, then it should not lead to a conviction. Just like we do…

Unfortunately we are at the stage in the UK now where people do receive visits from the police to (and I use the exact language of the police here) "Check their thinking". This is a consequence of attempting to police speech which previously fell below the level of criminal activity, but now may have been elevated to a crime via volumes of new hate crime laws. Indeed society has now decayed here to such an extent that we have "non crime hate incidents" which still fall below the criminal threshold but warrant an investigation by the police.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#168

Post by Saline9515 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #134
chgs wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think an enhanced dbs check can affect your job wait to see what posting on social media will do.

I must admit I'm struggling to see the problem. If someone is hostile or prejudiced against people of a certain race, sexual orientation or disability then they should be excluded from jobs working with those people.

The problem here is that I could go to the police, report Tony Edgecombe as he told me at the coffee machine that devs who use 4 spaces instead of tabs are pure human scum who should be deported, and it will be written in your file. You then have no way to erase it.

The problem with thinking that such practice is totally ok, is that one day it will turn against you. Pro-Palestine liberals discovered this at their expense after the Trump election and the recent crackdown on their movement.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#169

Post by lifestyleguru »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #77
lifestyleguru wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During COVID face masks were enough. Fine speculators earner low hundreds trading them, politicians made frauds worth millions, anyone could pick on any stranger not wearing or wearing them incorrectly, law enforcement could impose the most ridiculous fines. It's so trivial to make people yap at each other.

Except masks were a societal necessity to prevent further spread of an airborne pathogen - people not wearing masks were choosing to put their neighbours at risk of death. I'm not sure what a "fine speculator" is? In the UK the Tory ruling party used mask supply, and it seems other contract-based fraud (Covid website, at least), to steal £Billions from the Exchequer.

As in fine grained, individual. There were no bulk packages larger then maybe ten pieces. Everything larger was immediately split and sold with profit in small shops, open air markets, on gumtree/ebay/craigslist or some other local clone website.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#170

Post by mu53 »

thinkingemote wrote: post #65

It's worth repeating a tactic from every state's intelligence playbook, but I note that this article gives an interesting angle to this. Informants and spies are almost always those at the top of your group, they are the leaders, the ones with the money, the ones with the van, the people with the time to help out, to print your flyers, the people who can organise and transport. Spies are going to be the people above…

I really think the incoherence of modern reform movements (Occupy, BLM, Defund Police, etc) is the result of modern political suppression groups having enough tools in their toolbox to eliminate leaders of these movements.

Without a strong voice, the movement devolves into contradictory platforms, which results in no action.

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