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Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

nature.com

101–110 of 173 posts

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone with no connection to surfing at all, could you elaborate? Why is surfing special, or different from other sports, in needing to control your breathing?

Because panicking when you're being rag-dolled by even smallish waves can kill you, let alone waves of consequence. I don't have the words to describe what it feels like to be pushed to the bottom of the ocean by a wave, then just as you feel like you're running out of air be pushed back down by the next wave, and the next wave. You have no idea which direction is up and which is down, or how long it's been since you…

"the sea is no joke" trvth I was blessed with "over" sized lungs, and like swimming underwater, and hiking in mountains, so have enjoyed bieng able to do those things with minimal effort. When living in a city, I swam in an olympic size pool, and can go two lengths? (back and forth once+) undewater , but have no idea of how this actualy compares to an average. Got into doing the ?wim hoffman? breathing and like that, but have never noticed any altered conciousness, but that might be because my lungs are so large that I will need to realy realy push it? dont know, but after a car accident I was xrayed, and they were very surprised that the xrays, had to be redone, in two parts, as my lungs dont fit on a standard xray. I sing, and can hold a low note for a long time, and am kind of loud and boomy, unless I am carefull, which is a down side, as it is alarming for people in enclosed spaces. So breath work from the perspective of fine controll and exploring actual true limits, is something that is suddenly, looking like a good idea, for me. consiousness and all that

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#102
post #88

Question: will sleeping in a badly ventilated room help with CO2 tolerance, somehow?

Very unlikely. Here's a back of the envelope calculation: The human energy requirement per day is about 9MJ. This corresponds to about 500g sugar (or starch), which releases around 750g CO2. Metabolic activity is reduced at night, so 250g CO2 is the upper limit for a full night's sleep. At typical temperature and pressure, this is 10%) during breath holds. In summary, sleeping in a stuffy room might give you respiratory problems, but no improved CO2 tolerance.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s dangerous, since hyperventilating removes co2 from your blood, and raised co2 level is primary trigger for the urge to breathe reflex. It may feel better to hyperventilate and dive longer but you’re risking suddenly blacking out. I’m a free diver and this is one of the first things you are trained not to do, as well as never to dive alone, for safety reasons.

So just curious. You do want to have the CO2 levels, so you get the trigger to breath? But to free dive don't you want to stay down longer? So is the method more about dealing with the urges? Mental ways to understand the urge to breath, but be able to block it?

There are two gases that need to be exchanged when you breathe. You need to get rid of CO2 and you need to get O2. When you hyperventilate, you purge CO2, but don't really change your O2 content.

This matters only because CO2 is what triggers your desire to breathe, but O2 is what causes you to actually pass out or not. So what happens is that you might pass out before you realize you need to come up for air.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this help? I am a physicist with interest in these subjects and have always been wary of breathwork because of tetany and the following studies. What do experts closer to this field make of these? [1] "Brain Damage in Commercial Breath-Hold Divers" https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... [2] "Do elite breath-hold divers suffer from mild short-term memory impairments?" https://cdnsciencepu…

Could you please explain more about the Ref[2], what does it mean beyond what is in article and how serious is it? "These findings suggest that breath-hold diving training over several years may cause mild, but persistent, short-term memory impairments" Can you tell more about recreational nitrous oxide and when does the "damage occur"? Is there the same thing with wim hof? (like for example with oximeter 80 Sp02 or…

Being a non-expert I can't attempt to speculate on your questions in good faith! All I was suggesting to the parent is that perhaps these articles offer as evidence of damage being done without pushing to the point of unconsciousness? Feedback is definitely welcome by an expert.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#105
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this help? I am a physicist with interest in these subjects and have always been wary of breathwork because of tetany and the following studies. What do experts closer to this field make of these? [1] "Brain Damage in Commercial Breath-Hold Divers" https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... [2] "Do elite breath-hold divers suffer from mild short-term memory impairments?" https://cdnsciencepu…

Thank you, this is terrific! Why should tetany be worrisome? Edited to add: the second article seems to be about decompression injuries, rather than apnea-induced brain damage?

In a medical setting, where I am more familiar with it, tetany is never good. Personally it is also wildly uncomfortable. Perhaps it's fine and somehow pushing through it is part of the "experience", but if I want an altered consciousness I'll stick to a psilocybin-based retreat every 5-10 years and my meditation practice in between :D.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#106
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this is terrific! Why should tetany be worrisome? Edited to add: the second article seems to be about decompression injuries, rather than apnea-induced brain damage?

In a medical setting, where I am more familiar with it, tetany is never good. Personally it is also wildly uncomfortable. Perhaps it's fine and somehow pushing through it is part of the "experience", but if I want an altered consciousness I'll stick to a psilocybin-based retreat every 5-10 years and my meditation practice in between :D.

It is definitely uncomfortable and can produce at least minor injuries; I was wondering if there were other reasons to worry.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because panicking when you're being rag-dolled by even smallish waves can kill you, let alone waves of consequence. I don't have the words to describe what it feels like to be pushed to the bottom of the ocean by a wave, then just as you feel like you're running out of air be pushed back down by the next wave, and the next wave. You have no idea which direction is up and which is down, or how long it's been since you…

Not the most convincing advertisement

Surfers try to scare away would-be-surfers. Less waves for thee, more waves for me. I don't even have a girlfriend.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#108
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intense but did you get any lasting change from it? Are you still practicing? I did some breathwork and disturbed something with my natural breathing pattern. For about two weeks I had insomnias and was constantly lightheaded. Im reluctant to try again..

I used to teach various pranayama’s (yogic breathwork) and we tend to go easy, especially if you are not going to go into a 3 year seclusion as a lifetime yogi. All practices were 3 breaths only. If you really enjoyed one or the other, you can do them a few times a day. Because exactly as you say, you don’t want to disturb the natural pattern. If you have an unhealthy breathing pattern, the idea is that yoga, rest an…

Yeah the Wim Hof breathing feels more like a challenge or test that you come down from than a relaxing thing. Consistent with his "jump in ice water" thing.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#109

I rarely practised breathwork in my life but during my final year of high school I was basically locked in my house, and got a vitamin D deficiencey (quelle surprise) so I took up doing breathing meditation in a public park, and that really worked for me in a highly stressful period of time in my life, which got me some very good results, aced my exams, got into a decent college. I don't think I have applied myself a…

Why not make it a daily habit now?

[deleted]

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#110
post #13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a degree in building science, so maybe I can chime in. Note of caution: you will find yourself breathing heavily after reading this. It's normal. We do a terrible job at ventilating our indoor spaces. As a cave-dwelling species our brains are quite comfortable with tuning out bad smells and tolerating stale air -- but the effect of it on our mode and well-being is almost immediate. You don't notice the effect,…

How do you measure indoor air quality? CO2 levels?

People seem fixated on measuring CO2 specifically and often purchase expensive sensors ($$+) or devices ($$$) to measure CO2 levels.

There are inexpensive sensors ($) that detect a variety of VOCs but cannot distinguish between them and CO2. They'll never give you exact concentrations but they are consistent, broad spectrum, and will alert you of change. IMO these are a better option.

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