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Textmate2 Goes Open Source

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Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#91

Post by klodolph »

batista wrote: post #89

If we are completely honest, Textmate was always a sub-par editor. No Vim or Emacs style brilliantness, no BBEdit style tons of features and mature engine, no IntelliJ like, er, intelligence, no ST2 comprehensiveness, etc etc. Plus, the Textmate 1.x text engine was probably a mess too -- I remember the very first versions being laggy (and that's coming from someone who doesn't find even Eclipse laggy). That he couldn…

Yes, the extensions are its saving graces. I'd use it for typing up a web page in HTML, but as soon as I try to type in Japanese characters, it all goes to hell.

No, seriously. Typing Japanese characters in TextMate is a worse experience than, say, typing them into a terminal window, or typing them into an aged Carbon application that was obviously not designed for Japanese input.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#92

Post by jlgreco »

rpwilcox wrote: post #88
jlgreco wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a terrible way to measure utility, there are so many other factors to consider. I use my keyboard for work constantly , but it is not worth more than maybe $10 to me.

Until you get RSI from your crappy keyboard. Which is why people will pay $100+ for a keyboard. I've bought 3 Microsoft Natural 4000s (about a $60 keyboard) over the past 3 years simply because I was away from my office for an extended period of time and my wrists started hurting.

No see, you are including more sensible factors in your calculation of utility. The issue is just justifying price with "how much have you used it for work related activities", which is silly for just about everything except maybe soothing buyers remorse.

I have an old Model M at home that I value at a hell of a lot more than $10; I am not here to argue the merits of expensive keyboards. My point though is that the cheap keyboards I have around that have gotten a lot of use are not worth more because I have gotten a lot of use from them. No matter how much work I have gotten paid for while working on a $10 keyboard, it is still a $10 keyboard.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#93

Post by batista »

shurane wrote: post #81
emehrkay wrote: post #38

I've been using Textmate 2 for the past week or so and I still prefer 1 + missing drawer. For me, the only thing Textmate 1 is missing are split views (something 2 is missing as well). I wonder if there is still enough interest in the app where people will contribute all of the community's desired changes -- I hope there is. Am I one of the only Textmate users who feel that Sublime isn't the right "upgrade"? I much p…

I wonder if there is still enough interest in the app where people will contribute all of the community's desired changes -- I hope there is. I don't get what you mean by "if there is still enough interest". If you wanted a particular feature or change, couldn't you just fork Textmate and then implement it? That's the advantage of it going open-source. We are not at the mercy of some developers who don't think our re…

>I don't get what you mean by "if there is still enough interest". If you wanted a particular feature or change, couldn't you just fork Textmate and then implement it?

No, I could not.

1) I have other things to do than building my own tools. I work creating _stuff_, not creating tools.

2) You assume I have spare time to delve into the code of a project, understand the whole structure and add a feature --which might need tons of changes all around the engine.

3) You assume I can do it. I might not even code in Obj-C/C/Cocoa. I might just be some HTML/Javascript/Python whatever developer.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#95

Post by jlgreco »

Goronmon wrote: post #78
jlgreco wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a terrible way to measure utility, there are so many other factors to consider. I use my keyboard for work constantly , but it is not worth more than maybe $10 to me.

That is a terrible way to measure utility, there are so many other factors to consider. I use my keyboard for work constantly, but it is not worth more than maybe $10 to me. I'd say his measurement of utility makes a lot more sense than yours.

I can grab 5 to 10 more keyboards just like the one I am using right now for free. No history of use is going to bump the value of this keyboard. It is a piece of infinitely replaceable crap that bends like a paperback book.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#97

Post by 89a »

emehrkay wrote: post #38

I've been using Textmate 2 for the past week or so and I still prefer 1 + missing drawer. For me, the only thing Textmate 1 is missing are split views (something 2 is missing as well). I wonder if there is still enough interest in the app where people will contribute all of the community's desired changes -- I hope there is. Am I one of the only Textmate users who feel that Sublime isn't the right "upgrade"? I much p…

Can't stand ST2 either, if Chocolat is still going in a few months and TM2 flops I'll get it.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#98

Post by ChiperSoft »

emehrkay wrote: post #38

I've been using Textmate 2 for the past week or so and I still prefer 1 + missing drawer. For me, the only thing Textmate 1 is missing are split views (something 2 is missing as well). I wonder if there is still enough interest in the app where people will contribute all of the community's desired changes -- I hope there is. Am I one of the only Textmate users who feel that Sublime isn't the right "upgrade"? I much p…

I too still prefer TM1.5. TM2's UI is, quite simply, horrendous. That sidebar looks like something from the OS9 days. This combined with the changes to the menus and the change from ATSUI to CoreText rendering engine results in an app that quite simply isn't TextMate.

If I'm going to be moving away from TextMate as I know it, it's going to be to something better, not TextMate's uglier brother.

I tried ST2 for a month and ultimately decided it wasn't making me any faster or more productive than I was in TM1. When I do finally get to a place where I'm ready to leave TM1, it'll probably be for Chocolat. I've already bought my license.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#99

Post by 89a »

jlgreco wrote: post #92
rpwilcox wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you get RSI from your crappy keyboard. Which is why people will pay $100+ for a keyboard. I've bought 3 Microsoft Natural 4000s (about a $60 keyboard) over the past 3 years simply because I was away from my office for an extended period of time and my wrists started hurting.

No see, you are including more sensible factors in your calculation of utility. The issue is just justifying price with "how much have you used it for work related activities" , which is silly for just about everything except maybe soothing buyers remorse. I have an old Model M at home that I value at a hell of a lot more than $10; I am not here to argue the merits of expensive keyboards. My point though is that the…

what a strange world you live in

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#100

Post by brandall10 »

batista wrote: post #89

If we are completely honest, Textmate was always a sub-par editor. No Vim or Emacs style brilliantness, no BBEdit style tons of features and mature engine, no IntelliJ like, er, intelligence, no ST2 comprehensiveness, etc etc. Plus, the Textmate 1.x text engine was probably a mess too -- I remember the very first versions being laggy (and that's coming from someone who doesn't find even Eclipse laggy). That he couldn…

I agree with you insofar that I tried it and didn't quite get the appeal personally. But I had alot of experience with VIM coming in.

The degree of success is something I allude to as being congruent with the success of Apple products in general - well designed, cohesive, but definitely not the core demographic being power users. If anything you could probably say it was many's first powerful editor... and as people people grew in their abilities lament formed from its limitations, much of which was to be addressed in TM2, but the extended wait opened the door for people to move onto other, more powerful editors, and esp. set the stage for Sublime - which I'm neither here nor there with and may go back to VIM. But hey, its plugins are in Python and it has a VIM-like mode with an elegant UI so it's definitely a solid step in the right direction.

I think its success was well deserved given its core demographic and esp. tie-in with the Rails community which seemed to grow with it. I'm glad it existed, I consider it a great 'gateway' editor :) And now Sublime is its spiritual successor and I consider that a pretty good thing. Some people, esp. web designers, are just not going to give up UI polish no matter what so it is what it is. And it may very well have introduced others to VIM or EMACS who wouldn't have given them a look initially, finding the old school look and complexity daunting at first blush.

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