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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#601

Post by pkulak »

JohnFen wrote: post #598
fransje26 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will high-jack this top-rated comment to link to a comment further below. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43469297 This comment has a link to [0], explaining, in plain text: However, perhaps inline with the German attitudes towards privacy, the BSH "HomeConnect" appliances have a no-cloud mode built into their app without any hacks required to disconnect them from the internet. They do require a one-time conne…

That's an improvement, but the requirement to use an app is still a serious problem, even if it never phones home. Everything should be able to be done on the appliance itself. Installing an app should never be a requirement.

I disagree. Moving stuff to an API with full local control is a UI decision. Moving it to the cloud is a privacy and obsolescence decision. Huge difference.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#602

Post by forgetfreeman »

fransje26 wrote: post #431
forgetfreeman wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bosch dishwasher here. Zero network connectivity of any kind and washes dishes better than any other non-industrial dishwasher I've ever used. 10/10, would recommend, will buy again.

Which model are you using, for future reference?

It's an 8-9 year old 800 series dishwasher. So far it's outlived our previous two dishwashers combined lifetimes with zero issues.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#603

Post by stavros »

gryfft wrote: post #482
stavros wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can encrypt data and keep the exact same original byte size.

If you're using symmetric encryption, sure. And then every dishwasher has the same symmetric key, guaranteeing it'll leak.

Everything uses symmetric encryption, including asymmetric encryption. Using symmetric encryption doesn't mean you'd use the same key for every dishwasher, you'd obviously just pair the devices and generate a new key, like everything does nowadays. Also, my dishwasher doesn't use any sort of encryption, and it still leaks.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#604

Post by budro »

coldpie wrote: post #458
budro wrote: post #233

I work on embedded appliance software at my job. A few comments: It's quite easy to find yourself having non-zero boot times for some unfortunate reasons. At least in my org, the software as a whole is RAM/ROM constrained rather than speed constrained. Even when you're this close to bare metal, devs tend to write over-abstracted code riddled with inefficiencies. And of course most people don't profile the application…

I'm sorry for shitting on your job, but it seems like the solution is to bring back the buttons we had in the 80s and 90s and drop all the software garbage? I don't want a UI, I want an On button.

It's fine, I take every opportunity I can to shit on my own job lol.

Ironically what you're looking for can be found in the lowest end, and the highest end products. Low end means low features, so you can get away with just a knob and maybe a few LEDs. Look at Hotpoint (GE's low end brand) or a low end LG washer [0].

High end usually forgoes a flashy UI as well since it's about the style and being a centerpiece.

The mid end is where it's weird because features justify the extra cost. In order to make those available you need to have an LCD screen and more buttons.

In all these categories you'll run into software though. It's cheaper than a electro-mechanical solution. We only fall back to the old ways when required for safety/compliance.

[0] https://www.homedepot.com/p/324433017

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#605

Post by nrclark »

quacked wrote: post #593
publicmail wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no - I forgot about my Bosch dishwasher that uses capacitive touch buttons. Great idea for something that is often touched with wet fingers…

Capacitive touch buttons are #1 on my hate list for "inventions". They have all the downsides of touchscreens with none of the upsides, and they're imitating a control device so perfect that it basically hasn't been changed since its invention (the button).

Agreed - I hate captouch buttons, and would rather have physical controls every time. But in case you're curious why they're so common:

  1. They're cheaper than mechanical buttons.
  2. They're more space-efficient inside of the product.
  3. They are easy to waterproof.
  4. They have no wear-out mechanism.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#606

Post by skinner927 »

spicybright wrote: post #513
a_paddy wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume only if you're setting it up to work "offline" with the app. Issuing a key pair to the hardware and the app from their ecosystem's trusted authority does seem like a secure way to do it.

Why can't the dishwasher or phone generate that key though?

I’ll assume they use this to “register” your product so they know when the warranty actually started.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#607

Post by NoGravitas »

oblio wrote: post #467
1propionyl wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try buy a TV without smart features. Easy. Just buy a dumb monitor. Why do you even need the TV tuner?

Size. I don't think you can buy a 60" monitor.

"Digital signage display" is what you are looking for in this case. I don't think they are cost competitive, though.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#608

Post by quacked »

nrclark wrote: post #605
quacked wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capacitive touch buttons are #1 on my hate list for "inventions". They have all the downsides of touchscreens with none of the upsides, and they're imitating a control device so perfect that it basically hasn't been changed since its invention (the button).

Agreed - I hate captouch buttons, and would rather have physical controls every time. But in case you're curious why they're so common: 1. They're cheaper than mechanical buttons. 2. They're more space-efficient inside of the product. 3. They are easy to waterproof. 4. They have no wear-out mechanism.

Thanks, I intuited (1) and (2) but I hadn't thought about (3) or (4). I think waterproof mechanisms are about the only time I've encountered them where I haven't immediately despised them for total lack of haptic feedback and lag time between button input and device function--although that probably has more to do with poor system design rather than the limits of the captouch button technology.

My guess is that I associate them with lag because any control interface that cut corners on buttons probably cut corners on everything else, too.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#609

Post by thorncorona »

hydrogen7800 wrote: post #545
thorncorona wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed Queens are great at destroying your clothing and being very expensive in the process you mean. Please don’t buy a top loader for the love of your clothing.

I have either the AWNE92SP113TW01 or AWNE82SP113TW01 top load washer for about 7 years, and haven't had any issues with damaged clothing. Once a drawstring from a hoodie got tangled at the bottom of the rotating agitator, but thats it. what problems have you had? I also don't recall it being very expensive. Maybe $900.

agitators cause pilling, fading, etc. general wear and tear on your clothing that front load washers don't cause

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#610

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #434
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make stickers and go put them on the units at the store. Send Bosch a picture of how you've improved their labeling along with a nice note indicating that you'll do it again if they don't change their ways.

That'd probably get you banned from the store if they find you doing that and at best, it's only going to get the message out to a few customers until the store staff remove the stickers. Jeff's using his internet fame to reach far more people. I previously thought that Bosch were a good brand (only had a blender and a temperature controlled kettle from them though), but now will avoid them.

Ok, but not all of us have internet fame. I've found that my "here's where to pirate this textbook" stickers are not typically removed. Maybe sellers of dishwashers are more diligent, who knows.
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