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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#431

Post by fransje26 »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #253
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

Bosch dishwasher here. Zero network connectivity of any kind and washes dishes better than any other non-industrial dishwasher I've ever used. 10/10, would recommend, will buy again.

Which model are you using, for future reference?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#432

Post by perch56 »

jart wrote: post #319

Jeff, you left out the juiciest part of the story, which is that the Bosch Home Connect iPhone app hoovers up your Search History data. Anyone know how much that data is worth? I made the same mistake of buying the 500 and it's just so ridiculous that I need to reveal my most intimate Google moments to a dishwasher in order to use its advanced features which I won't. When I was building Internet technology in the 199…

There's a bit of a mix-up here. The “Search History Data – Not Linked with You” label you see on the App Store refers only to the searches you perform within the Home Connect app—not your full Google search history. Given that iOS apps run in a sandboxed environment, there's no way for the app to access your Google account. It’s a standard practice among smart home devices to enhance functionality, not to spy on your entire digital life.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#433

Post by smolder »

schobi wrote: post #338
tzs wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had sort of the opposite situation. I needed a new washer and all the top rated ones according to Consumer Reports included WiFi. I asked at Home Depot if the one I was thinking of getting, an LG WM3400CW, required me to actually use the WiFi and they said no. I used it for a few weeks without ever even trying to set up WiFi and everything was fine. Then I found at that when you set up an LG washer for WiFi you can…

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus…

How about a wifi feature that is useful on a LAN and doesn't need 'the cloud'? The annoying part of wifi appliances is that network connectivity almost always means phoning home to some server on WAN. Home routers or a separate box on LAN ought to have functionality to be the bridge between appliances and client devices instead. That's a standard I'd rather see.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#434

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #285
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has to be some backpressure on the supply chain. I appreciate that you used your clout to make the issue public, but sometimes I worry that it only goes so far as our little echo chamber.

Make stickers and go put them on the units at the store. Send Bosch a picture of how you've improved their labeling along with a nice note indicating that you'll do it again if they don't change their ways.

That'd probably get you banned from the store if they find you doing that and at best, it's only going to get the message out to a few customers until the store staff remove the stickers.

Jeff's using his internet fame to reach far more people. I previously thought that Bosch were a good brand (only had a blender and a temperature controlled kettle from them though), but now will avoid them.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#435

Post by pqdbr »

jart wrote: post #319

Jeff, you left out the juiciest part of the story, which is that the Bosch Home Connect iPhone app hoovers up your Search History data. Anyone know how much that data is worth? I made the same mistake of buying the 500 and it's just so ridiculous that I need to reveal my most intimate Google moments to a dishwasher in order to use its advanced features which I won't. When I was building Internet technology in the 199…

This is just unbelievable. However, can you provide evidence of this being true?

Because this is class action level unbelievable.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#436

Post by dgacmu »

tigerlily wrote: post #414
schobi wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus…

> Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? LG must have some internal standard for this feature. If they would just publish it and then that could be the standard. Edit: to the downvotetards, if you worked in actual engineering like I do, then you would understand that this is how most standards naturally materialize. Someone does one thing particularly well,…

No, that might be the beginning of the standard, because once it's published you realize they don't have a version number or vendor ID or any way to add fields other than the ones they hard coded or whatnot. But it's a start and it would be great if they did it!

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#437

Post by latexr »

dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

> Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two

Where do you live? Pretty sure that in the EU they’d have to take it back, for any reason, if it’s not been 14 days yet. Though the no packaging could pose an issue, yeah.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#438

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

agilob wrote: post #364
geerlingguy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to take a stance like that, but the reality is I've already sunk about 6 hours total into the whole operation, and I have quite limited time for my home maintenance + improvement projects as it is (my bench currently has a new faucet set to fix the leaky bathroom faucet, as well as an exhaust fan to fix the broken one in our bathroom... and those are just the things that are currently broken , not the dozen…

>If taking a stand means sacrificing another 2-4 hours >Plus, now I have a long-term project to hack my dishwasher. So you'd rather waste more time, probably days or weeks, on a hack where Bosch can change implementation anytime, than return it?

Returning an appliance though will leave you without that appliance for a while. Attempting to reverse-engineer it shouldn't affect his ability to clean dishes and is also fun to do.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#439

Post by timcobb »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #91
geerlingguy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to take a stance like that, but the reality is I've already sunk about 6 hours total into the whole operation, and I have quite limited time for my home maintenance + improvement projects as it is (my bench currently has a new faucet set to fix the leaky bathroom faucet, as well as an exhaust fan to fix the broken one in our bathroom... and those are just the things that are currently broken , not the dozen…

There has to be some backpressure on the supply chain. I appreciate that you used your clout to make the issue public, but sometimes I worry that it only goes so far as our little echo chamber.

> There has to be some backpressure on the supply chain

Sure it would be nice, but just like all things, not to be pessimistic or fatalistic—the HN rejection of something doesn't practically matter to most companies. I mean, why is it is that Steve Bannon is the loudest voice against technofeudalism today? Why can't we get louder and get other people listening?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#440

Post by sfn42 »

mmooss wrote: post #339
UnlockedSecrets wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of a threat-risk analysis, the need of a physical microphone nearby i imagine more than makes up for the risk of an adversary knowing your water quality and electrical consumption as measured by your washer in almost everyones lives atleast..

It also indicates when you are home or out, and likely an estimate of how many people live there. It could collect more data. Those pieces of data are combined with others, to form a full picture. This device doesn't need to collect it all itself. Survellance of private citizens is arguably the foundation of the very dangerous problems in societies around the world, taking away freedom, health, peace, and for most, p…

If someone can get a bug into my home I'm pretty sure they already know how many people live there and whether we're home..

Ad if someone is bugging my home I think the data transfer from my dishwasher is quite literally the least of my worries.

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