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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#591

Post by nextos »

hyllos wrote: post #454
SirHumphrey wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been gravitating towards Miele more and more in recent years. Yes, they are expensive but at least they tend to work a bit - something I can’t say anymore for previously reliable brands like Bosch.

We were searching for a long-lasting washing machine 2 years ago. We asked local electrician shops with their classic Miele sign. Not one but many were recommending us AGAINST Miele due to recent quality problems. One electrician went with us to the models he had in-store. They changed the door now from metal to plastic. While Miele is bragging about their internal tests “our machines are tested to hold up against us…

That sucks, thanks for the heads up. I guess we bought one of the last decent models then.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#592

Post by Bad_CRC »

eisa01 wrote: post #327
Svip wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days, Bosch is wholly owned by Siemens. And their appliances are basically the same. Except Bosch is now their experimental branch, where they try out ideas for products. Only those that are successful become Siemens products. So uhm, just buy a Siemens dishwasher, it's unlikely to have an app requirement.

Also Gaggenau and NEFF are BSH group brands They all use HomeConnect https://www.bsh-group.com/

and Balay, i'm currently looking to renovate my kitchen right now and you can buy the same appliance in any of the 3 brands (Bosch, Balay and Siemens).

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#593

Post by quacked »

publicmail wrote: post #490
publicmail wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite is my Bosh wall oven that uses 85C rated capacitors with practically no voltage derating for the control board that sits directly at the top of the oven. After 4 years, they gave out causing the display to dim to the point of invisibility. We’re talking about 50 cents of part savings on a $3000+ appliance here. Replaced them myself easily, but most people will end up having to call for service and end up…

Actually no - I forgot about my Bosch dishwasher that uses capacitive touch buttons. Great idea for something that is often touched with wet fingers…

Capacitive touch buttons are #1 on my hate list for "inventions". They have all the downsides of touchscreens with none of the upsides, and they're imitating a control device so perfect that it basically hasn't been changed since its invention (the button).

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#594

Post by wrasee »

Aissen wrote: post #560
wrasee wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to agree. The bottom line is that manufactures will continue to pull this trick as long as consumers keep buying. Even Jeff himself says that > I don't think we should let vendors get away with this stuff. But he _did_ let the vendor get away with it. That’s exactly what he did. He even spent a significant part of the article anticipating the push back by trying to reason why in his case he felt justified in doi…

I can hear Jeff's argument (in this very thread), that as a video creator, taking a public stance is an already impactful way to put pressure on the manufacturer. That's leverage enough for him.

Last comment, promise.

I think there may even be an argument that a stance like this can do more damage than good. It may actually normalize the view that it's sufficient to promote on social media but ultimately take no action. There's a danger of furthering a sense of complacency where we want to do the right thing, but where sufficiency in "the right thing" has been normalized down to a grumble and a tweet rather than to actually take real action at any real personal cost.

Alternatively put, if everyone else doesn't do the hard bit, why should I?

Consider real leadership that makes the hard choices and leads by example. You see a friend step up against something at cost to them, and it's that what motivates you to join them. Leading by example is what motivates people.

I think it would have been so much more effective if Jeff returned the dishwasher. People see that personal cost and it _means something_. Otherwise why bother? I mean, that's what Jeff does, right?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#595

Post by account42 »

Izkata wrote: post #229
btbuildem wrote: post #47

One thing I've learned when buying a full set of appliances couple of years ago: don't read consumer reports or reviews by randos on the internet -- instead, go to industry literature, and read reports by/for service and warranty providers. They have actual hard data on the types and frequency of problems across brands and models. But back to the main theme of the article: hell to the no was my initial attitude, and…

> The idea of remotely preheating my oven while I am not home still makes me shudder. Electric ovens can be terrifying when they fail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrL_9K7rCz8 Mine was throwing a lot more sparks than in this video. It sounded like fireworks were going off in my kitchen.

What's the failure mode here? Heating coil making contact with the outer casing? Shouldn't that be caught by a residual-current circuit breaker?

In any case, generating lots of heat inside the oven is probably safer than doing it outside it.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#596

Post by freedomben »

xnzakg wrote: post #563
tzs wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of another thing I wish was a universal standard for major appliances. I’d like to see them all have a USB port. If you plug in a thumb drive the appliance should create a directory named with the appliance manufacturer and model and serial number. In that directory it should place a copy of its manual and other documents that normally come with it.

...or just have device side usb port that shows up as a mass storage device?

That would be pretty inconvenient for appliances in places that are hard to reach with a computer, but definitely an improvement over the status quo.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#597

Post by freedomben »

DanielHB wrote: post #419
schobi wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus…

An appliance could just have blutooth so it can connect to an app on your phone. With the machine not having a direct internet connection, the app can collect diagnostics, metrics and do software updates. Require you to press a button in the machine to pair it to your phone. 99% of the functionality with 0 annoyance and ~0 security/privacy risks.

But that still requires installing their app on a mobile device, and that app will still have invasive access to data and internet, etc. If we have to have an "app" I'd much rather it be a built-in web server (despite the inevitable security decay) that serves up a local-only web interface. Best scenario though is to just give me hardware controls and a simple display :-)

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#598

Post by JohnFen »

fransje26 wrote: post #450
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

I will high-jack this top-rated comment to link to a comment further below. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43469297 This comment has a link to [0], explaining, in plain text: However, perhaps inline with the German attitudes towards privacy, the BSH "HomeConnect" appliances have a no-cloud mode built into their app without any hacks required to disconnect them from the internet. They do require a one-time conne…

That's an improvement, but the requirement to use an app is still a serious problem, even if it never phones home. Everything should be able to be done on the appliance itself. Installing an app should never be a requirement.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#600

Post by forgetfreeman »

alpaca128 wrote: post #404
forgetfreeman wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You would really purchase something based on past experience with the company Absolutely. Companies that make bullshit products very rarely get their act together, so why wouldn't brand loyalty be a thing when one encounters a quality product? > after all the old models were pulled and this new line of WiFi connected dishwashers replaced them in 2023 That is news to me. If true my next dishwasher is going to be a H…

There is no customer loyalty, so with brand loyalty you're only ripping yourself off.

Only if brand quality actually declines. The idea that having found a good product one should then never purchase another product from the same manufacturer is bizarre.
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