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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#491

Post by geerlingguy »

jmyeet wrote: post #476
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

This type of comment is common, unfortunately. It amounts to "Don't use [thing] because of [anecdote]". Bosch, in particular, is highly regarded. They also have a wide range. I bought an 800 series 2-3 years ago. I went online to see if anything had changed. You still find the same options: front controls, top controls, different finishes, etc. You can still absolutely buy a dishwasher with manual controls. They're e…

In the linked article, it lists the 6 modes that will not work without the WiFi connection, including Eco mode, Rinse, Self clean, Delayed start, and Half mode.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#492

Post by kevincox »

lmz wrote: post #486
kevincox wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They do require a one-time connection to perform key exchange of a long-live authorization key What does my offline dishwasher need a long-lived authorization key for?

Maybe it has some embargoed technology and needs to make sure it's not in China or something.

IANAL but I'm pretty sure the issue is distribution, so as long as they don't sell their dishwasher in China it isn't their problem. If someone buys and resells it in China then the reseller is in trouble. (Obviously it is a bit more complicated if they should know about this reselling but it shouldn't require online activation.)

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#493

Post by account42 »

latexr wrote: post #437
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

> Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two Where do you live? Pretty sure that in the EU they’d have to take it back, for any reason, if it’s not been 14 days yet. Though the no packaging could pose an issue, yeah.

14 days no-question returns are only for online orders. In-store pickups have different (local) rules.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#495

Post by uselesswords »

jer0me wrote: post #264
nkurz wrote: post #182

I recently bought and installed the same dishwasher. I also don't like the app requirement to access some features. But contrary to some of the other comments, I feel the need point out that it's still a fully functional dishwasher even if you never connect it to Wifi. You will miss out on a few "advanced" features, but it washes dishes really well. I read the manual before I bought it, and I got the performance I ex…

I'm curious—what are the philosophical reasons for not having a password on your network?

Gratuitously, maybe he has a device that can’t connect to WiFi network with a password. Realistically, probably just laziness. Neither of these are philosophical though…

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#496

Post by a_paddy »

kevincox wrote: post #483
fransje26 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will high-jack this top-rated comment to link to a comment further below. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43469297 This comment has a link to [0], explaining, in plain text: However, perhaps inline with the German attitudes towards privacy, the BSH "HomeConnect" appliances have a no-cloud mode built into their app without any hacks required to disconnect them from the internet. They do require a one-time conne…

> They do require a one-time connection to perform key exchange of a long-live authorization key What does my offline dishwasher need a long-lived authorization key for?

I assume only if you're setting it up to work "offline" with the app. Issuing a key pair to the hardware and the app from their ecosystem's trusted authority does seem like a secure way to do it.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#498

Post by account42 »

darkwater wrote: post #354
inferiorhuman wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The previous generation of Bosch dishwashers in the US were WiFi free. The current generation went through a round of cost cutting and added WiFi bullshit to everything. No idea what the state is of their appliances sold in other markets. As far as I can tell Electrolux is the only manufacturer selling "dumb" laundry kit in the US these days… which is probably part of why everyone's favorite LG shills (Yale Appliance…

> The current generation went through a round of cost cutting and added WiFi bullshit to everything I'm no dishwasher expert and I guess they did their homework but over a period of 10 years, how can be cheaper to remove the local functionality, add a wifi chip, redo the manuals, and pay for the datacenter costs?

It's probably more that they add the online features because some users want them and then think if they already have that they can save some cents on buttons.

Also I seriously doubt the hosting costs are more than a rounding error for a multiple-hundred-dollar appliance.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#500

Post by a_paddy »

GrumpyNl wrote: post #444
schobi wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus…

Bluetooth comes to mind.

Zigbee would be even better.
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