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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#131

Post by mmcnl »

labster wrote: post #46
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

While I agree with you, I think the problem goes beyond military equipment. There’s a lot of risk now in doing business with America in every field, because it’s so unpredictable. Why get cloud or SaaS from the US if they’re one executive order away from being forced to break the GDPR — or shut off service completely, like Maxar in Ukraine. Why build supply chains through America if the price of raw materials can arb…

I was thinking the same thing. Europe should build its own cloud. All purchased US goods and services are now a potential target for a match of arm wrestling.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#133

Post by dopidopHN »

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

I have friends working on the French Rafale. Really expensive plane, mildly successful so far.

They are really busy right now.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#134

Post by mmcnl »

tw2347288 wrote: post #114

I'm glad that this discussion finally takes place, even though the discussion is of course flagged. You can flag here, but the mainstream press has picked up the issue: "Can the US switch off Europe’s weapons?" https://www.ft.com/content/1503a69e-13e4-4ee8-9d05-b9ce1f7cc... "Such is the concern that debate has turned to whether the US maintains secret so-called kill switches that would immobilise aircraft and weapons…

Whether there is a kill switch or not is somewhat irrelevant. There is a larger than nonzero chance that there is a kill switch, and the US cannot be trusted anymore. So we have to assume there is a kill switch.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#136

Post by AlecSchueler »

tim333 wrote: post #129
postingawayonhn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO as has existed is already over. Nobody has any faith that the US will follow through on its Article 5 obligations.

I'd say it's on hold for four years till they get a new president. In the meanwhile I guess the other members will have to try to manage.

In 4 years another administration could come in but there's still damaged trust. If something happens in 5, 6 years from now and article 5 kicks in then even if the US comes to help what is there to say they won't suddenly pull out again 2 years into a war when Vance takes charge? The reliability is gone.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#137

Post by mopsi »

Escornabois wrote: post #33

Hello, Complete ignorant of strategy, international relations and power dynamics here. Is it nagging anyone else that the "Forbes Analyst" gets called Aks, Aske and Ax in just 10 lines or it is just me?

That's most likely an artifact of automated translation.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#139

Post by AlecSchueler »

sovietmudkipz wrote: post #124
throwaway_20357 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand that Trump wants Zelenskyy to sign the minerals deal and that implicitly there’s security guarantees. I don't think there are any "security guarantees". What could they be? The "endgame" as far as I understand it: The US wants access to the minerals as a compensation for the money already spent and, perhaps, to restore some of the support currently put on hold (satellite data access). Once the Ukranian…

I think the implicit guarantee is if American business and workers are harvesting minerals then if Russia attacked the USA would have even more incentive to intervene militarily. That said, I don’t know what more Ukraine would want given the Budapest Memorandum already ties the USA, UK, and Russia to Ukraine’s defense. That’s proven to be a mixed success, as both USA, UK, and other countries have indeed stepped up fo…

> if American business and workers are harvesting minerals then if Russia attacked the USA would have even more incentive to intervene militarily

Or Russia just invades while being careful not to damage their buddy's mines. Maybe the US even helps the Russians out once the Ukranian "dictator" is forced to begin fighting in too close proximity to the minerals.

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