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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#41

Post by apeescape »

michelb wrote: post #25
k1kingy wrote: post #18

Donald Trump really should leave his fragile ego at the door and continue to support the USA's allies at this time. People forget that it was Zelensky refusing to lie which led to Trumps first impeachment. At the very least this entire 180 and the attempt to humiliate Zelensky in the White House is Trump wanting to enact some kind of revenge. At the very worst him praising Putin, threatening to leave Nato, threatenin…

I do not for a second believe Trump thinks this all up himself. I'm not one for conspiracies, but I'm wondering how large the group using him as a mouthpiece really is.

That's the thing. Trump's actions make no sense unless you view them through the lens that he's driving the agenda of Putin.

Then again, even if a global nuclear war broke out, some of his loyalists would still be convinced that Trump is playing some sort of 3D chess and that it's all going according to his masterful plan.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#42

Post by actionfromafar »

finnjohnsen2 wrote: post #30

Trump just destroyed US advanced arms export. He is efficient at tearing things down, gotta give him that.

It makes the US oligarchs comparatively stronger within the US though, with foreign backing diminished, which is probably the main objective of this circus.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#43

Post by AngryData »

bboygravity wrote: post #23
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

Since when was the US in the European Union or even near Europe? How is it like Brexit in the slightest? Why is it the US's responsibility to finance and organize the majority of EU's defense? PS: I'm from and in Europe. I don't get why it is a good or logical thing that the US should be responsible for the majority of "Western" defense on our territory.

The US is the largest arms dealer in the world and sells ass tons of equipment to the EU. Ain't nobody going to be buying US arms if they think they could be cut off on a whim. Large parts of the US economy are based on arms production and sales, and a large part of the US's non-arms trade is thanks to the US protecting its trade routes and partners. If the US stops protecting its trade, people will stop preferring trade with the US because it will now be vulnerable and near impossible to secure as a smaller nation because it has to cross the largest oceans in the world.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#44

Post by bentt »

peepeepoopoo113 wrote: post #31
k1kingy wrote: post #18

Donald Trump really should leave his fragile ego at the door and continue to support the USA's allies at this time. People forget that it was Zelensky refusing to lie which led to Trumps first impeachment. At the very least this entire 180 and the attempt to humiliate Zelensky in the White House is Trump wanting to enact some kind of revenge. At the very worst him praising Putin, threatening to leave Nato, threatenin…

[flagged]

Source?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#45

Post by nonrandomstring »

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

There is actually a psychiatric disorder (from an Oliver Sacks book) where the patient wakes up one day with a terrible conviction that their own healthy limbs are not theirs, and with an overwhelming urge to amputate them. Sometimes it's so distressing that amputation is actually done.

This kind of happened to the US.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#46

Post by labster »

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

While I agree with you, I think the problem goes beyond military equipment. There’s a lot of risk now in doing business with America in every field, because it’s so unpredictable. Why get cloud or SaaS from the US if they’re one executive order away from being forced to break the GDPR — or shut off service completely, like Maxar in Ukraine. Why build supply chains through America if the price of raw materials can arbitrarily change with tariffs? Sure, it’s a huge market to sell to, but all of those risks have real costs.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#47

Post by bbzealot »

peepeepoopoo113 wrote: post #31
k1kingy wrote: post #18

Donald Trump really should leave his fragile ego at the door and continue to support the USA's allies at this time. People forget that it was Zelensky refusing to lie which led to Trumps first impeachment. At the very least this entire 180 and the attempt to humiliate Zelensky in the White House is Trump wanting to enact some kind of revenge. At the very worst him praising Putin, threatening to leave Nato, threatenin…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#48

Post by Cyan488 »

bboygravity wrote: post #23
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

Since when was the US in the European Union or even near Europe? How is it like Brexit in the slightest? Why is it the US's responsibility to finance and organize the majority of EU's defense? PS: I'm from and in Europe. I don't get why it is a good or logical thing that the US should be responsible for the majority of "Western" defense on our territory.

Without much background in the politics, the parallel I see is this:

Group A and Group B build an economic partnership under consensual terms generally favourable to both over a long period of time.

At one point, Group A decides to withdraw due to real or perceived inequality. The timeframe of withdrawal is faster than entering, and is insufficient to unearth the complex network of roots that took generations to plant.

When the trunk is pulled, the pain is felt in vast numbers of small ways that add up. These roots are what contain the vast majority of the surface area after all.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#49

Post by k1kingy »

peepeepoopoo113 wrote: post #31
k1kingy wrote: post #18

Donald Trump really should leave his fragile ego at the door and continue to support the USA's allies at this time. People forget that it was Zelensky refusing to lie which led to Trumps first impeachment. At the very least this entire 180 and the attempt to humiliate Zelensky in the White House is Trump wanting to enact some kind of revenge. At the very worst him praising Putin, threatening to leave Nato, threatenin…

[flagged]

Gonna need you to provide some sources on the 'ties to the Ukrainian government' there mate. I don't think there's any doubt that he spent time in Kyiv and posted videos encouraging people to join the foreign legion and help the fight.

But as far as I'm reading there isn't any indication that he had ties to the government outside of some Russian news outlets blaming Ukraine for the assassination attempt.

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