Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 470 posts

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#241

Post by immibis »

sepositus wrote: post #237
immibis wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech concerns in the EU go like: - You can't call people pedophiles unless it was proven in court. - You can't say black people are inferior. - You can't say Israel is doing a genocide. and only one of these is a valid thing to be worried about IMO...

Well, according to the two sources I'm familiar with, it's not necessarily the _current_ laws that are the most concerning, but rather the _direction_ things are heading.

In the past it was like:

- You can't call people pedophiles unless it was proven in court.

- You can't say black people are inferior.

Since October 2023 it's like:

- You can't call people pedophiles unless it was proven in court.

- You can't say black people are inferior.

- You can't say Israel is doing a genocide.

And has remained there since. Is this what worries you?

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#242

Post by andsoitis »

katmannthree wrote: post #78
angry_moose wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has been looking; the EU Blue Card through Germany seems pretty stable and straightforward, with a 21/27 month path to permanent residency, depending on language ability: https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/types/e... The politics there are a little concerning at the moment but should be stable for at least 4 years. With residency, the rest of the EU becomes a lot easier if things chan…

Thank you for the link. How is Germany looking RE economic stability for the next couple of years? I was looking into Sweden but even the Swedish citizens I know there are having a difficult time finding / keeping engineering jobs as the economy has been doing poorly.

> How is Germany looking RE economic stability for the next couple of years?

Not great. Its economic growth has stalled. European Commission forecasts GDP growth of 0.7 percent in 2025, the slowest in the EU. Since 2017, the German economy has grown by 1.6 percent, while the EU average has been 9.5 percent.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/german...

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#243

Post by YZF »

ande-mnoc wrote: post #233
YZF wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as we all know the Russians, oops the Chinese, invented LLMs and transformers. Randomly picking the first author in the r1 paper, Daya Guo, he interned and was a researcher for Microsoft, a well known Chinese company. So I guess he didn't have any "overseas experience" whatsoever. I'm sure China has plenty of talent. But an oppressive society is going to be self limiting.

Your snarky tone aside, “overseas” usually means outside of one’s country. Microsoft has research teams all over the globe. You don’t have to be in the U.S. to work for Microsoft.

I know what overseas means and I realize Microsoft has teams all over the globe. But Microsoft is a US company and by working there as a researcher you are trained and have access to know-how that is technically American in origin.

The intent of the original "boast" is to somehow claim the know-how comes solely out of China. It's boasting about China's abilities to generate cutting edge technology without reliance on the west. This has nothing to do with where you physically reside.

The gp said:

> Industrial espionage by China has a long history, and China has more valuable things to steal from America than the other way.

And you were countering that by saying nonono, these guys learnt everything they know solely from some Chinese origin. They've never been overseas.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#244

Post by walthamstow »

milesrout wrote: post #235
whynotminot wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of immigrant communities actually voted for Donald Trump this time though. I don’t understand it. But it happened.

It is very simple. Nobody hates queue jumpers more than the people that stood in line.

Those who stood in line as you say also want to take people out of today's queue. Legality doesn't have much to do with it. In Britain it's called pulling up the drawbridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawbridge_mentality

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#245

Post by alienthrowaway »

somelamer567 wrote: post #224
Fricken wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US stole it's IP as well when it was behind. Sam Slater was known as "The Founder of the American Factory System" in the US. In the UK he was known as "Slater the Traitor", because he stole some very important IP. Adam Smith wasn't a big fan of IP either. He was all about owning the means of production. China was taking notes. The dog ate America's homework.

[flagged]

Do you think morals have changed over the past century? Even back then, Slater knew what he was doing was criminal (in Britain), and immoral (to the British). IP laws weren't invented after Sam Slater; American industrialists knew Britain's laws, but they still welcomed Slater because they wanted to move up the value chain. American morals haven't evolved since Slater - the only thing that changed is that they are no longer the upstart but the incumbent. The same will happen to China in 50-100 years: they too will become very concerned about losing IP to whatever ambitious upstart country.

Also, if you want something more recent, France/Airbus accused the US intelligence apparatus of economic spying to benefit Boeing in the 90's - so decades ago. "National Interests" remain the same after decades or centuries. I don't doubt France does the same for its companies.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#246

Post by genewitch »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #208
neuralkoi wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When nations attack each other, often innocent people are the ones that end up suffering.

"When elephants fight, it's the grass that gets trampled" Not sure of the attribution of this quote.

I got this off a .ke domain site that has an "African proverb of the day":

> In the 1970s Julius Nyerere (then the President of Tanzania) used this proverb in a speech at the United Nations in New York. The Democratic Republic of the Congo (then Zaire) Ambassador to Great Britain used this same proverb in a talk to a group of Missionaries of Africa (White Fathers) in London. The meaning was the same: In the Cold War between the (then) two great super powers — the United States and Russia — it was the poor Third World countries such as those in Africa who suffered and were victimized.

so that's probably why we've heard it; but it's probably much older than that. i didn't dig in to it too hard because that site was really slow, i got the attribution, though.

you'll note it has a slightly different connotation - the "reeds" aren't the citizens of the warring countries - the "grass" is Africans.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#247

Post by smeeger »

Philpax wrote: post #148
smeeger wrote: post #54

it only becomes more obvious that AI is being treated as an arms race. thats why the federal government assassinated suchir balaji.

The latest autopsy came down pretty firmly on it being a suicide. Even if it could've been an assassination, there isn't much motive: his claims were about copyright violation, which neither OpenAI or the government would much care about in an arms race.

the autopsy that his mother says was really strange and done by the police who acted in a bizarre manner? or has there been another one? and as for motive, you are literally incorrect. if there is a massive copyright precedent set in the courts the intelligence community would not be able to overturn that. and its likely to happen because its legally sound… if i were the cia i would be doing everything in my power to stop that from happening.

and by the way how many people prepare a meal and then leave it on the table and brutally kill themselves?

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#248

Post by YZF »

suraci wrote: post #232
YZF wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meng Wanzhou was roaming in beautiful Vancouver BC while awaiting judgment on the extradition request. Meanwhile China was keeping random Canadian citizens it arrested in retaliation in some dungeon. Either way the US did not kidnap her. Since her case never went to trial we don't know if she is guilty or not. Anyways, this is what a rule of law looks like. It's possible the original request was politically motivated…

> we don't know if she is guilty or not > random Canadian citizens( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_an... ) > Anyways, this is what a rule of law looks like I like the tongue geeze i don't know how to express it that how much i like this

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Yes. Everyone knows I'm referring to the two Michaels.

The party that is rogue in this whole story is China. Even if the conduct of the US authorities here is/was suspect the retaliatory arrests is how the Mafia operates. I am not a fan of the way the US and Canada behaved here but at the end of the day for the most part Meng Wanzhou was not locked up, she had a luxury wait while the slow wheels of justice grind. It's almost certain there was some funny business from the Huawei side here as well since naturally they wouldn't care less about violating US sanctions.

The law and the rule of law in free and democratic countries can be abused. But it's still way ahead of the other option.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#249

Post by beeflet »

somelamer567 wrote: post #224
Fricken wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US stole it's IP as well when it was behind. Sam Slater was known as "The Founder of the American Factory System" in the US. In the UK he was known as "Slater the Traitor", because he stole some very important IP. Adam Smith wasn't a big fan of IP either. He was all about owning the means of production. China was taking notes. The dog ate America's homework.

[flagged]

I don't think they are asserting morality or blame. That's just what the game is. We specialized into intellectual property while de-industrializing. The product we make as a country is information, which can be copied across a legal barrier. They products they make are necessary to operate in this world.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#250

Post by chrischen »

somelamer567 wrote: post #224
Fricken wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US stole it's IP as well when it was behind. Sam Slater was known as "The Founder of the American Factory System" in the US. In the UK he was known as "Slater the Traitor", because he stole some very important IP. Adam Smith wasn't a big fan of IP either. He was all about owning the means of production. China was taking notes. The dog ate America's homework.

[flagged]

Well IP is social construct. It is literally only illegal if your country’s laws says it is.
Post reply on HN