Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 470 posts

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#231

Post by YZF »

ande-mnoc wrote: post #115
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #48

Why does the US still allow Chinese nationals to study at its universities and work at its companies? Seems like a big risk that cutting edge research and trade secrets will go to America’s main adversary. Industrial espionage by China has a long history, and China has more valuable things to steal from America than the other way.

I have good news for you. DeepSeek openly bragged that none of its people have “overseas experience”. They are all local talents.

And as we all know the Russians, oops the Chinese, invented LLMs and transformers.

Randomly picking the first author in the r1 paper, Daya Guo, he interned and was a researcher for Microsoft, a well known Chinese company. So I guess he didn't have any "overseas experience" whatsoever.

I'm sure China has plenty of talent. But an oppressive society is going to be self limiting.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#232

Post by suraci »

YZF wrote: post #212
suraci wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Meng Wanzhou was roaming in beautiful Vancouver BC while awaiting judgment on the extradition request. Meanwhile China was keeping random Canadian citizens it arrested in retaliation in some dungeon. Either way the US did not kidnap her. Since her case never went to trial we don't know if she is guilty or not. Anyways, this is what a rule of law looks like. It's possible the original request was politically motivated…

> we don't know if she is guilty or not

> random Canadian citizens(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_an...)

> Anyways, this is what a rule of law looks like

I like the tongue

geeze i don't know how to express it that how much i like this

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#233

Post by ande-mnoc »

YZF wrote: post #231
ande-mnoc wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have good news for you. DeepSeek openly bragged that none of its people have “overseas experience”. They are all local talents.

And as we all know the Russians, oops the Chinese, invented LLMs and transformers. Randomly picking the first author in the r1 paper, Daya Guo, he interned and was a researcher for Microsoft, a well known Chinese company. So I guess he didn't have any "overseas experience" whatsoever. I'm sure China has plenty of talent. But an oppressive society is going to be self limiting.

Your snarky tone aside, “overseas” usually means outside of one’s country. Microsoft has research teams all over the globe. You don’t have to be in the U.S. to work for Microsoft.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#234

Post by milesrout »

immibis wrote: post #166
NalNezumi wrote: post #36

I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? When you read the reasoning of people that defected from UK/US to soviet with nuclear secrets it's kinda hard to grasp now, but back then I can definitely understand that a mix of "the soviets are not that bad" and "are we really that good?" could've made people switch…

Remember though, China is still a totalitarian dictatorship at least as bad as the USA. It's not the same situation.

[flagged]

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#235

Post by milesrout »

whynotminot wrote: post #191
rcpt wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we'll see born-in-the-USA Americans moving to Shenzhen anytime soon. But a huge fraction of our workforce is immigrants who have given up their homeland and distanced themselves from their families and communities in search of opportunities here. The fact that we're driving them away now does not bode well for our future economy.

A lot of immigrant communities actually voted for Donald Trump this time though. I don’t understand it. But it happened.

It is very simple. Nobody hates queue jumpers more than the people that stood in line.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#236

Post by jltsiren »

hansvm wrote: post #132
realusername wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's bigger problems in the US for a researcher than just the salary in the US nowadays. That salary comparison was valid pre-Trump.

> salary comparison was valid pre-Trump Is it not valid now?

Salaries must be weighted by risk. Right now, there is a high risk that researchers funded by grants or working in government labs will lose their jobs and faculty will lose their grants and labs. Industry researchers are in a more stable situation, even though layoffs may be more common than on the average.

And if we focus specifically on the academia, American salaries have never been that high. Sure the numbers in the paycheck are bigger than in most countries, but the cost of living is also high. Particularly because good universities are often in very expensive areas, such as California, New York, or Boston. I've worked at a foreign university where grad students on dual income could buy a starter home. Now I'm at an American university, where you need to be tenured faculty on dual income to afford a similar home.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#237

Post by sepositus »

immibis wrote: post #170
sepositus wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I’m literally seeing the opposite. Had two people move from the EU last year due to free speech concerns.

Free speech concerns in the EU go like: - You can't call people pedophiles unless it was proven in court. - You can't say black people are inferior. - You can't say Israel is doing a genocide. and only one of these is a valid thing to be worried about IMO...

Well, according to the two sources I'm familiar with, it's not necessarily the _current_ laws that are the most concerning, but rather the _direction_ things are heading.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#238

Post by andsoitis »

dluan wrote: post #59
NalNezumi wrote: post #36

I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? When you read the reasoning of people that defected from UK/US to soviet with nuclear secrets it's kinda hard to grasp now, but back then I can definitely understand that a mix of "the soviets are not that bad" and "are we really that good?" could've made people switch…

It's already been happening for years. Award winning faculty and scientists are fleeing US universities and institutions and setting up shop in China, often with more funding and talent available, and no McCarthyism accusations of being spies. It started officially in 2018 with the US Department of Justice's "China Initiative", which basically just allowed anyone to go on a witch hunt of Chinese and Chinese American…

> Award winning faculty and scientists are fleeing US universities and institutions and setting up shop in China, often with more funding and talent available, and no McCarthyism accusations of being spies. It started officially in 2018 with the US Department of Justice's "China Initiative", which basically just allowed anyone to go on a witch hunt of Chinese and Chinese American academics.

While some of what you write is accurate, there’s also plenty of hyperbole and omission in what you said.

According to research by Stanford: ”19,955 scientists of Chinese descent who began their careers in the U.S. but left for other countries, including China, between 2010 and 2021.”

And: ”Among the scientists of Chinese descent who left the U.S. in 2010, 48% moved to mainland China and Hong Kong, and 52% moved to other countries.”

https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/reverse-brain-dr...

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#239

Post by onemoresoop »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #94
tokioyoyo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 1.4B Chinese. Like obviously some will want to move away. The question is, per capita, what is the rate of locals fleeing away from each country.

Even per capita more Chinese are leaving the country for US than the other way round.

Compare past to present and you’ll see a large drop.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#240

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

ipaddr wrote: post #89
gunian wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if only one side has nukes slavery will be much more widespread if everyone has them all the slave traders competing with each other will be at least mitigated kind of crazy they saw all the graffiti license plate games that early

If everyone has them they are more likely to be used over minor issues.

When?

There’s no evidence that is the case.

It has been eighty years since a nuclear weapon was used in an act of aggression.

It would appear a state sort of only really comes to have nuclear weapons when it has got its act together sufficiently to be well enough behaved to not use them.

A sort of maturation process, if you will.

The meek[1] shall inherit the Earth, and all of that.

If we’ve got data, let’s go with the data. If all we have is opinions, let’s go with mine.

1. this is best as interpreted as those who have the ability to use force, but do not use it, except maybe to defend themselves.

Post reply on HN