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China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

wsj.com

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Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#211

Post by nneonneo »

assimpleaspossi wrote: post #201

>>They also worry that executives could be detained and used as a bargaining chip in U.S.-China negotiations Since when has this ever happened? In China, yes. In the US, never! How foolish of them. China can only look in the mirror with this.

Really not sure if you're joking or not, but Meng Wanzhou (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou) was a major turning point for China-US and China-Canada relations.

She was detained in Vancouver on the request of the US DoJ and held in house arrest for three years - after which they dropped all the charges and let her go back to China. She was absolutely used as a bargaining chip by the US government.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#212

Post by YZF »

suraci wrote: post #124
russli1993 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Meng Wanzhou was roaming in beautiful Vancouver BC while awaiting judgment on the extradition request. Meanwhile China was keeping random Canadian citizens it arrested in retaliation in some dungeon.

Either way the US did not kidnap her.

Since her case never went to trial we don't know if she is guilty or not.

Anyways, this is what a rule of law looks like. It's possible the original request was politically motivated but there's still a independent judicial system at work. In China there's none of that. Sometimes the rule of law gets things wrong but that's still way ahead than the arbitrary "justice" of totalitarian countries.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#213

Post by hypothesis »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #190
hypothesis wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they pay premium for asbestos?

Yea, 10 years of his life.

Certainly a steep price to pay.

I recall that some states were happy to deice roads next to schools with radioactive brine, which might come back now with EPA being dismantled.

https://www.acfan.org/2020/radioactive-oil-and-gas-waste-on-...

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#214

Post by hungryhobo »

nevertoolate wrote: post #152
hungryhobo wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean every country has their epstein. western media likes to pick the chinese ones cause they make a good china bad story. Hundreds of chinese like myself travel from and to china each year, I'm surprised it's hard for you to imagine regular chinese people can enjoy life in china.

[flagged]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1068495/china-number-of-...

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#215

Post by assimpleaspossi »

tehjoker wrote: post #143
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #48

Why does the US still allow Chinese nationals to study at its universities and work at its companies? Seems like a big risk that cutting edge research and trade secrets will go to America’s main adversary. Industrial espionage by China has a long history, and China has more valuable things to steal from America than the other way.

[flagged]

How about, instead, we call it national security.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#216

Post by Fricken »

somelamer567 wrote: post #198
addicted wrote: post #76

Unsurprising considering the U.S. has been arresting and imprisoning Chinese and American academics with highly prestigious positions in well known universities because they forgot to mention a conference in China they were paid to speak at a decade ago.

[flagged]

The US stole it's IP as well when it was behind. Sam Slater was known as "The Founder of the American Factory System" in the US. In the UK he was known as "Slater the Traitor", because he stole some very important IP.

Adam Smith wasn't a big fan of IP either. He was all about owning the means of production. China was taking notes. The dog ate America's homework.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#217

Post by tecleandor »

Philpax wrote: post #121
Zamiel_Snawley wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the best economic function of open source—it forces innovation by elimination of rent seeking. If you sit on your laurels, someone will make a solution thats at least 70% as good for free.

It's a nice sentiment and I agree, but I'm not sure we'll see this applied to AI going forward. These training runs cost a lot of money - at some point, every player in the game will realise that they need to charge something or they'll left without enough chips to play in the next round. DeepSeek's altruism has taken them far, but they have costs, too, and High Flyer / their personal warchest can only take them so f…

Yeah well, but you should add OpenAI to that "altruism" first. They're the ones burning money like crazy that could find themselves in the end of their runway quite quickly. Isn't crazy to think DeepSeek could break even and make a good profit before OpenAI goes broke, if they don't find another investor with even bigger pockets.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#218

Post by assimpleaspossi »

nneonneo wrote: post #211
assimpleaspossi wrote: post #201

>>They also worry that executives could be detained and used as a bargaining chip in U.S.-China negotiations Since when has this ever happened? In China, yes. In the US, never! How foolish of them. China can only look in the mirror with this.

Really not sure if you're joking or not, but Meng Wanzhou ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou ) was a major turning point for China-US and China-Canada relations. She was detained in Vancouver on the request of the US DoJ and held in house arrest for three years - after which they dropped all the charges and let her go back to China. She was absolutely used as a bargaining chip by the US government.

>>...under the indictment of bank and wire fraud regarding financial transactions in violation of U.S. sanctions against Iran by Skycom, which had functioned as Huawei's Iran-based subsidiary. On 24 September 2021, the DOJ announced it had reached a plea bargain with Meng to resolve the case through a deferred prosecution agreement...

iow, she committed a crime and was released after agreeing to a plea bargan. They did NOT drop the charges. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#219

Post by scotty79 »

immibis wrote: post #166
NalNezumi wrote: post #36

I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? When you read the reasoning of people that defected from UK/US to soviet with nuclear secrets it's kinda hard to grasp now, but back then I can definitely understand that a mix of "the soviets are not that bad" and "are we really that good?" could've made people switch…

Remember though, China is still a totalitarian dictatorship at least as bad as the USA. It's not the same situation.

Out of the two, now China seems to benefit from keeping global peace more, since USA is checking out from global trade with tariffs.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#220

Post by ForTheKidz »

Philpax wrote: post #121
Zamiel_Snawley wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the best economic function of open source—it forces innovation by elimination of rent seeking. If you sit on your laurels, someone will make a solution thats at least 70% as good for free.

It's a nice sentiment and I agree, but I'm not sure we'll see this applied to AI going forward. These training runs cost a lot of money - at some point, every player in the game will realise that they need to charge something or they'll left without enough chips to play in the next round. DeepSeek's altruism has taken them far, but they have costs, too, and High Flyer / their personal warchest can only take them so f…

There are models with open training as well as weights. It's not chatgpt, but that trained model can be fully audited and reused without further training. I think for most daily use I'd be fine using a greatly outdated model. Open source has always relied on contributors eating costs—even just the opportunity cost of contributing time.

FLOSS software is slow, much slower than VC-funded explosive growth, but it's hard to compete with in the long term.

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