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China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

wsj.com

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Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#121

Post by Philpax »

Zamiel_Snawley wrote: post #102
echelon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope that this sharing will continue and increase It will continue until they pass us. They're coming from behind, and releasing models as open source essentially wipes the board of hundreds of American startups. Growth hackers and solopreneurs like @levelsio can be nipping at the heels of $300M funded companies who poured all of their points into training models, making expensive mistakes, and overpaying for com…

I think this is the best economic function of open source—it forces innovation by elimination of rent seeking. If you sit on your laurels, someone will make a solution thats at least 70% as good for free.

It's a nice sentiment and I agree, but I'm not sure we'll see this applied to AI going forward. These training runs cost a lot of money - at some point, every player in the game will realise that they need to charge something or they'll left without enough chips to play in the next round.

DeepSeek's altruism has taken them far, but they have costs, too, and High Flyer / their personal warchest can only take them so far. And that's before any potential government intervention - it's very likely that this will become a natsec concern for all nations involved.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#122

Post by Philpax »

kasey_junk wrote: post #113
gunian wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if only one side has nukes slavery will be much more widespread if everyone has them all the slave traders competing with each other will be at least mitigated kind of crazy they saw all the graffiti license plate games that early

We have the test case for this. When one power had nukes and no one else did they weren’t used…

famously they were very much used

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#123

Post by throwawayq3423 »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #96
tz18 wrote: post #15

No, this is just about keeping people from defecting and taking secrets / cash with them. Many Chinese people working for state controlled companies or similar (schoolteachers were one ridiculous example I think) in super mundane jobs have their passports taken away or exit bans for "national security" reasons.

One note, if you’re working for a top AI company in China, your quality of life other than work hours is already good enough to not to want to leave. It’s not 1990s/2000s anymore. Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states. The same applies to other sectors as well. Top talent is genuinely valued in China.

> Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states.

What data do you have for this conclusion?

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#124

Post by suraci »

russli1993 wrote: post #35
tz18 wrote: post #15

No, this is just about keeping people from defecting and taking secrets / cash with them. Many Chinese people working for state controlled companies or similar (schoolteachers were one ridiculous example I think) in super mundane jobs have their passports taken away or exit bans for "national security" reasons.

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Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#125

Post by gamblor956 »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #70
dluan wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already been happening for years. Award winning faculty and scientists are fleeing US universities and institutions and setting up shop in China, often with more funding and talent available, and no McCarthyism accusations of being spies. It started officially in 2018 with the US Department of Justice's "China Initiative", which basically just allowed anyone to go on a witch hunt of Chinese and Chinese American…

[flagged]

McCarthy accused 12,000 people of being Communists.

Of those 12,000, fewer than 1000 were actually members of the Communist Party. Many of the accused (an estimated 5000) were just gay (at a time when that was still illegal).

Of those 12,000, fewer than a dozen were actually spies for the Soviets.

McCarthy leaked more classified information in his hunt for Communists than the spies actually did.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#126

Post by tracerbulletx »

scrollaway wrote: post #72
nxm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many will take a massive pay cut only to pay more taxes

You’re incorrect. Many will and do. US life is more plentiful in terms of cash but not in terms of hard value. Why do you think we get so many American tourists? Unfortunately Europe is full of self inflicted wounds, especially around entrepreneurship, but we are working on those.

Listen I'm not a supporter of this administration but what is this argument? As if there aren't also tons of tourists coming to America. Tourism has little to do with getting people to immigrate.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#127

Post by Philpax »

gamblor956 wrote: post #109
NalNezumi wrote: post #36

I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? When you read the reasoning of people that defected from UK/US to soviet with nuclear secrets it's kinda hard to grasp now, but back then I can definitely understand that a mix of "the soviets are not that bad" and "are we really that good?" could've made people switch…

I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? No. The US will experience a brain drain to Europe, Canada, and Australia, but not to China. Trump still has a ways to go to match the excesses of the Xi regime.

I wouldn't rule it out iff the other candidates can't stump up the resources to play the game. I very much doubt AGI will come out of Canada or Australia; Europe is making some overtures, but it'll take some time to get the machinery rolling to the same extent.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#128

Post by gunian »

skavi wrote: post #120
kasey_junk wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the test case for this. When one power had nukes and no one else did they weren’t used…

if you ignore WW2 for some reason?

history is pick and choose these days the blight is spreading everywhere :(

well it was always pick and choose but i had high hopes for the tech barons sigh

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#129

Post by tensor »

ideashower wrote: post #111
gamblor956 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? No. The US will experience a brain drain to Europe, Canada, and Australia, but not to China. Trump still has a ways to go to match the excesses of the Xi regime.

Yeah this feels right, Americans will choose leveraging their English before seeking out needing to learn a non-Romance language, I feel.

Language? What about principles of freedom, democracy, and science? I would think that those things would be why US scientists choose Canada and Europe first. I doubt language is really high on the list.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#130

Post by hansvm »

nxm wrote: post #64
scrollaway wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an EU-based employer, I'm seeing a post-WW2 soviet vs usa style defection of engineers between USA and Europe. By the way, if anyone US-based is in this situation and wants to "defect" to an EU-job, send me a message, I can help you.

Not many will take a massive pay cut only to pay more taxes

I've run the numbers a few times for every EU tech-adjacent job I'm eligible for. Except for some opportunities in France, I'd have a lower proportional tax rate (and, except for in France, I'd have enough of a lower proportional tax rate that the free healthcare makes up the difference). The US doesn't actually have low taxes.

What it does have is extremely high wages, and despite my inclinations to the contrary I'm absolutely staying for the next year or three, but taxes aren't to blame there. A small number of tech oligarchs made that possible (FANG driving up wages for certain skillsets).

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