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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#361

Post by dismalaf »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #208
coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

I don’t quite get why framework focuses so much on Intel and AMD. ARM laptops are in the rise, and don’t need active cooling. It’s hard for me to think of upgrading to another laptop with fans when so many fanless (I.e.: silent) options are available.

There's no ARM GPU on par with AMD's integrated GPU in the 300 series. The ARM CPU also among the top, trading blows with the M3 Max. Plus you can avoid the compatibility mess that is ARM on the desktop...

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#362

Post by zeroq »

brunoqc wrote: post #203
forevernoob wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...the first Framework Laptop 12 motherboard is going to use Intel's 13th-generation Core i3 and i5 processors I _really_ hope they launch an AMD version (perhaps with an iGPU) soon after that. That and preferably with Libreboot support. This would make it the ideal portable laptop for me and thus I'd be able to (finally!) replace my X220T.

Why would you prefer AMD? price, heat/fan noise?

just an anecdata but recently I was building a HTPC/NAS. Initially I wanted N100 for pure NAS, but ended up with an 5500 AMD and I was blown away by the capabilities of IGPU. Turned out to be a quite capable gaming machine.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#363

Post by [deleted] »

starkparker wrote: post #266
brunoqc wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you prefer AMD? price, heat/fan noise?

Framework shipped AMD 7040-series and 13th-gen Core i-series alongside each other for the 13. The 13th-gen Intels had miserable battery life and heat issues under load. If you could manage that, all four USB-C ports were full Thunderbolt ports equally capable of driving displays, PD, and USB 4 throughput. The AMD line had considerably better performance-per-watt but rougher firmware support (and early on, really brok…

[deleted]

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#364

Post by genewitch »

aljgz wrote: post #213
brunoqc wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you prefer AMD? price, heat/fan noise?

I don't know about the GP. I won't buy anything from Intel unless things change dramatically. My last Intel laptop had serious thermal throttling problem that could be completely avoided if Intel cared a bit about users. The one before had some other problems. In past 20 years, anytime I bought (or was given by a company) AMD I was happy, and as time goes by I get less and less happy with Intel.

Thermal issues on a laptop I'd be pulling heatsinks and putting better paste on. Also a laptop cooler is nice unless you get junebugs.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#365

Post by genewitch »

scarlehoff wrote: post #115
roxolotl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think very fondly of my 11” MacBook Air. The idea of a 12” framework laptop is very appealing.

Same here. I'm still using my 11" MacBook because it is the only one that fits in my handbag :)

What OS? My air can't upgrade and is out of space with like nothing installed. Curious if still macos or something else, now.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#366

Post by starkparker »

phonon wrote: post #332
starkparker wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framework shipped AMD 7040-series and 13th-gen Core i-series alongside each other for the 13. The 13th-gen Intels had miserable battery life and heat issues under load. If you could manage that, all four USB-C ports were full Thunderbolt ports equally capable of driving displays, PD, and USB 4 throughput. The AMD line had considerably better performance-per-watt but rougher firmware support (and early on, really brok…

The two CPU models are i3-1215U and i5-1334U [1] which are 15 W parts with 2 P cores. They should be OK. [1] https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY?t=729

The issue isn't TDP so much as performance-per-watt. The equivalent Ryzen 5 PRO 7540U can run at the same base TDP, had 2 full and four 4c cores on a smaller die, and outperformed the 1334U almost across the board.

Both chips were Q1 '23, so the timing's not a great excuse. They were in HP's 2023 EliteBook G10 840 (1334U) and 845 (Ryzen 5 PRO 7540) laptops, and the 845 was better on both single- and especially multi-thread Cinebench R23, _much_ better in GPU loads and gaming, _and also_ lasted longer on battery.

I think Framework mostly just wants to target an education market with a mainboard experience that's lower maintenance than AMD has been for them. Fewer USB-C restrictions, less firmware drama.

Still hard to get excited about it being the _only_ available option, though.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#367

Post by kibwen »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #245
kibwen wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. Finding the ceiling is always going to involve overshooting the ceiling and then walking back from there. It sounds as though you're not willing to consider even the possibility that this may be the effective end of progress for this combination of technology and use case, at least for values of "progress" that involve increasing resolution, rather than values that involve decreasing cost.

Or rather it sounds as someone misreading me again as asking for "progress" when I'm just asking not to skimp over on what was already offered 10 years ago and practically everyone else still offers today.

> practically everyone else still offers today

The Steam Hardware Survey shows that 1920x1080 is still the majority resolution, and that's among an audience that's inordinately populated by technological enthusiasts. The fact that people are seemingly dead-set on sticking to 1920x1080 despite--as you point out--the availability of alternatives only further strengthens the argument that the majority of consumers just don't particularly value higher resolutions.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#368

Post by [deleted] »

zootboy wrote: post #348
65 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want a diving board trackpad? Every single non haptic trackpad I've tried always sucks, requiring excessive force to press a button, particularly if you're not on the very bottom of the doving board mechanism of the trackpad.

And here I sit, longing for the days when trackpads had separate, physical buttons underneath them.

[deleted]

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#369

Post by laweijfmvo »

Spunkie wrote: post #278
ThinkBeat wrote: post #28

It seems unframeworky Memory, CPU and GPU once piece of metal, sitting in a tiny box. A regular PC in a regular case, it a lot more modular and upgradable. It does seem like an interesting box, and matches against Apple Studio I would presume. Yet customers of Apple are used to having (near) 0 user modifiable parts. It might well have a good market, It might b a great box. It is unframeworky.

Honestly to me these announcements read as an outright abandonment of frameworks supposed mission. Feels like a stab in the back.

like everyone else, they’re chasing the AI dragon

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#370

Post by VTimofeenko »

hinkley wrote: post #342

I wish there were any chance in hell that they could turn a profit on a blade server model. I kinda want a backplane with a dozen Framework motherboards plugged into it. That ITX board looks like it's a stone's throw away.

Coolermaster case has a vesa mount, so it's kind of rackmountable that way.
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