Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 554 posts

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#51

Post by sunshowers »

cogman10 wrote: post #43
sunshowers wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no other way to get 256 GB/s of memory bandwidth for this cheap, and that's quite valuable in many workloads. I'm curious to get one for compiling code too. You can get similar bandwidth with server boards that cost 5-10x as much, or with a Mac Studio that costs 2.5x as much.

> You can get similar bandwidth with server boards Could be wrong, but I don't think you can. The bandwidth limit, AFAIK, is a problem with the DDR5 spec. These soldered solutions can go faster specifically because they aren't DDR5.

Hmm, I think a Threadripper 7965WX can get you there. Probably around 4-5k all in so I guess similar pricing to a Mac Studio.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#52

Post by roxolotl »

coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

I still think very fondly of my 11” MacBook Air. The idea of a 12” framework laptop is very appealing.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#53

Post by h14h »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #2

what is the pitch, because desktops don't have a problem with replacements, repairs etc.

Repair-friendly form factor for a "Unified Memory" platform.

For $2000, you get 128 of system RAM, 96 of which is addressable as VRAM. Only ways of getting 96GB of VRAM in a desktop are to either:

1. Drop ~$5000 on a (very non-upgradeable) Mac Studio 2. Drop ~$20k on a dual RTX 6000 workstation

For running local LLMs, there's nothing on the market presently even remotely like this.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#54

Post by sunshowers »

kingsleyopara wrote: post #50
sunshowers wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no other way to get 256 GB/s of memory bandwidth for this cheap, and that's quite valuable in many workloads. I'm curious to get one for compiling code too. You can get similar bandwidth with server boards that cost 5-10x as much, or with a Mac Studio that costs 2.5x as much.

A Mac mini with an M4 Pro and 64GB of memory has the same bandwidth and costs £1,999, compared to £1,750 for the Framework Desktop when factoring in the minimum costs for storage, tiles, and necessary expansion cards.

True, but less RAM.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#55

Post by rdedev »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #28

It seems unframeworky Memory, CPU and GPU once piece of metal, sitting in a tiny box. A regular PC in a regular case, it a lot more modular and upgradable. It does seem like an interesting box, and matches against Apple Studio I would presume. Yet customers of Apple are used to having (near) 0 user modifiable parts. It might well have a good market, It might b a great box. It is unframeworky.

https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY

The ceo kind of explains why in this video. In essence it seems to be a limitation of the chip from AMD

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#58

Post by seanmcdirmid »

h14h wrote: post #53
calvinmorrison wrote: post #2

what is the pitch, because desktops don't have a problem with replacements, repairs etc.

Repair-friendly form factor for a "Unified Memory" platform. For $2000, you get 128 of system RAM, 96 of which is addressable as VRAM. Only ways of getting 96GB of VRAM in a desktop are to either: 1. Drop ~$5000 on a (very non-upgradeable) Mac Studio 2. Drop ~$20k on a dual RTX 6000 workstation For running local LLMs, there's nothing on the market presently even remotely like this.

You can get a M3/M4 Max with 128 GB of RAM as well. The Studio will give you > 128 GB.

I have a max with 64GB RAM, which is good enough for 70b models with a 3 bit quant. Even if I had more RAM to run larger models, my GPU would be the bottleneck.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#59

Post by alwayslikethis »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #16

Up to 128 GB RAM available for running AI models. Theoretically awesome, but this might have some interesting market consequences for everyone else.

The bandwidth still doesn't quite compare to a GPU, and 128GB doesn't fit DeepSeek R1, however. If they bump it to 512GB for $5000 or so, that will disrupt the market.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#60

Post by josephg »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #16

Up to 128 GB RAM available for running AI models. Theoretically awesome, but this might have some interesting market consequences for everyone else.

You’ve gotta deal with amd’s AI software stack though. How is that these days? I assume cuda is still king?
Post reply on HN