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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#41

Post by zamalek »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #15
sunshowers wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

256 GB/s memory bandwidth for $2000.

Which should also be available from all the usual motherboard manufacturers. Possibly well before this one, since it doesn't ship until Q3.

It's soldered RAM, which is a fantastic trade-off for specific scenarios (inference). If all you care about is local inference, this thing is basically the same price as a 5090 (I think?) with multiple times the memory, and no need to purchase "everything else" (mobo, CPU, etc.) alongside. And given that home inference will typically be serving a single user at once, a handful at worst, you really have no need for a GPU. I'm guessing that this product will be uniquely positioned for quite a long time.

For every other use-case? Yeah, just get a desktop.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#42

Post by perihelions »

ortusdux wrote: post #12

It looks like their event drove a lot of traffic towards frame.work - Cloudfare is giving me a 1hr 9min wait to access the site. https://i.imgur.com/twcxJjr.png

Here's a screenshot (WEBP 1452 x 16383) of the product page, for anyone who wants a glimpse at what's behind the Cloudflare wall:

https://i.ibb.co/Y4n5Qhzm/framework.webp ("Framework Desktop is a big computer made mini")

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#43

Post by cogman10 »

sunshowers wrote: post #20
onli wrote: post #14

Framework is great because they took an entshittified category and made a good and repairable product in it, upgradeable in a way the other vendors refused to enable. That was the laptop. Now they made a less repairable desktop PC. This brings nothing to the market. The soldered ram is particularly unacceptable. I get and believe that they could not make it work otherwise, but then they should have stopped the produc…

There's no other way to get 256 GB/s of memory bandwidth for this cheap, and that's quite valuable in many workloads. I'm curious to get one for compiling code too. You can get similar bandwidth with server boards that cost 5-10x as much, or with a Mac Studio that costs 2.5x as much.

> You can get similar bandwidth with server boards

Could be wrong, but I don't think you can. The bandwidth limit, AFAIK, is a problem with the DDR5 spec. These soldered solutions can go faster specifically because they aren't DDR5.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#45

Post by jsheard »

shaw00000 wrote: post #31

I was really hoping for an ARM laptop. Hopefully they'll develop one soon.

Isn't the Snapdragon X Elite pretty much the only part that would fit the bill? Framework might not even be able to get those, Qualcomm generally won't even give you the time of day unless you commit to buying a bazillion units.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#46

Post by harrison_clarke »

would have been cool to know about this a month ago

i just built a mini ITX gaming PC for a friend, and this one looks pretty good for quality/$. good enough that i wouldn't be surprised if these get snapped up and re-sold for more than the sticker price

i think it makes more sense to think of it as a high-end console, given that basically everything is soldered, though

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#47

Post by 0x457 »

buckle8017 wrote: post #37
ortusdux wrote: post #12

It looks like their event drove a lot of traffic towards frame.work - Cloudfare is giving me a 1hr 9min wait to access the site. https://i.imgur.com/twcxJjr.png

Isn't the entire purpose of a CDN like cloudflare to enable bursts like that?

CF can only handle static websites, I suspect the issue the store-backend side not being able to catch up.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#48

Post by unethical_ban »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #28

It seems unframeworky Memory, CPU and GPU once piece of metal, sitting in a tiny box. A regular PC in a regular case, it a lot more modular and upgradable. It does seem like an interesting box, and matches against Apple Studio I would presume. Yet customers of Apple are used to having (near) 0 user modifiable parts. It might well have a good market, It might b a great box. It is unframeworky.

There is a balance between forgetting your purpose and thinking too narrowly about your business.

At first, Framework is "laptops that are repairable". But if you broaden what they are, they are a disruptor of direct-to-consumer computing equipment, with a core competency of repairability and upgradability.

An integrated CPU/RAM is a decrease in that measure, but it is for a valid benefit - a large improvement in performance for low-power graphics and AI software. They aren't sacrificing upgradability for aesthetic, and they continue to offer fully upgradable laptops.

I wonder if modular memory will continue to evolve and be competitive bandwidth wise with soldered.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#49

Post by boricj »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #2

what is the pitch, because desktops don't have a problem with replacements, repairs etc.

If that was available when I started to build my homelab server, I'd have bought it. My requirements were a low-power but modern and punchy mini-ITX board with an AMD processor in a very compact build with a 48v DC power supply and SmartOS.

That was basically unobtainium and I've compromised down to a AliExpress mini-ITX motherboard with a mobile AMD CPU, a AM5 heatsink and firmware that is... flavorful, powered by a screaming TFX power supply crammed in an absurdly tight 3.8L noname case running on Proxmox (when you start reconfiguring PCI Express bridges through the serial port kernel debugger because that's just about the only device the Illumos kernel enumerated at all on what is supposed to be your main server, it's time to give up on SmartOS).

It works, but it's a little box of pure hatred and heresy that's quite far off from what I've wanted initially. It is actually an improvement over my previous main server, somehow.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#50

Post by kingsleyopara »

sunshowers wrote: post #20
onli wrote: post #14

Framework is great because they took an entshittified category and made a good and repairable product in it, upgradeable in a way the other vendors refused to enable. That was the laptop. Now they made a less repairable desktop PC. This brings nothing to the market. The soldered ram is particularly unacceptable. I get and believe that they could not make it work otherwise, but then they should have stopped the produc…

There's no other way to get 256 GB/s of memory bandwidth for this cheap, and that's quite valuable in many workloads. I'm curious to get one for compiling code too. You can get similar bandwidth with server boards that cost 5-10x as much, or with a Mac Studio that costs 2.5x as much.

A Mac mini with an M4 Pro and 64GB of memory has the same bandwidth and costs £1,999, compared to £1,750 for the Framework Desktop when factoring in the minimum costs for storage, tiles, and necessary expansion cards.
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