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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#241
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get, uhhhh, RISC-V. We have ARM at home? https://frame.work/products/deep-computing-risc-v-mainboard

RISCV is garbage for real use currently. Arm laptops are plenty competitive with the x86 space with the snapdragons now.

RISC-V chips tend to be slower, but architecture-wise there's not much an ARM chip can do that a RISC-V one can't. Both are pretty well-supported for the coding/web browsing use case laptops get employed for.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#243
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I was an early adopter and have a Framework 13 11th gen intel (batch 4) and have been generally happy with it. Except the keyboard stopped working and I had to replace it, ~100 tiny screws later (and one stripped screw). And the battery drains fast (~24 hours) when suspended. And except that it won't turn on anymore without plugging into a particular USB-C port with a "dumb" USB cable (the basic 5V 900mA typ…

I had that issue on my batch 5 11th gen. There's an issue with the rechargeable CMOS battery they included (that isn't present on the later 12th and 13th gen) that when it stops taking a charge your laptop stops turning on unless you do some arcane process to reset it. They provide a "repair" kit that's basically a dummy CMOS battery that hooks in to the normal power system that prevents the issue from occurring agai…

>There's an issue with the rechargeable CMOS battery

I am aware of the issue as described in [1] and the fix in [2]. However, my support request has gone unanswered for a year, as was my second support request. In addition, I have doubts as to whether this fix (which requires soldering!) will work.

I was not aware of an updated BIOS [3], foolishly believing the output of 'fwupdmgr' after following the instructions in [4]. It looks like I'll need to find a USB stick and update via EFI shell. Thanks for the tip!

But still, I think they should do more for early customers before expanding out well beyond their core market!

1 - https://framework.kustomer.help/my-laptop-is-not-powering-on...

2 - https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+...

3 - https://community.frame.work/t/11th-gen-intel-core-bios-3-20...

4 - https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/updating-bios-on-linu...

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#244
post #165

I’m happy to answer questions folks have on the Framework Desktop (though probably not until later today).

Any chance this will get the amd security features for remote management (amd dash) ?

If there was a possibility to get amd dash working this would be the perfect system to use as a home server.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#245
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a ridiculous thing to respond to someone who complains that this hardware is worse than what was available at the same size 10 years ago.

It's not. Finding the ceiling is always going to involve overshooting the ceiling and then walking back from there. It sounds as though you're not willing to consider even the possibility that this may be the effective end of progress for this combination of technology and use case, at least for values of "progress" that involve increasing resolution, rather than values that involve decreasing cost.

Or rather it sounds as someone misreading me again as asking for "progress" when I'm just asking not to skimp over on what was already offered 10 years ago and practically everyone else still offers today.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#246
post #231

The Framework website right now: You are now in line. Thank you for your patience. Your estimated wait time is 7 minutes. We are experiencing a high volume of traffic and using a virtual queue to limit the amount of users on the website at the same time. This will ensure you have the best possible online experience. What the hell, Cloudflare? CDN with a wait time, really?

Lol - it's not that Cloudflare can't handle the traffic. It's the _framework_ can't handle the traffic and set up Cloudflare to ratelimit entry using their Waiting Room[0] product. Clearly poorly messaged if it made you think it was a Cloudflare capacity issue! [0] https://www.cloudflare.com/application-services/products/wai...

Quite funny as one of these desktops could likely handle the traffic :)

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#247
post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

I wonder if the 12-inch form factor could be modified to support a 360 deg hinge? I enjoyed the Lenovo Yoga's tablet configuration.

I would love to see one of these hinges as a mod for the Framework 13...

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#248
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a balance between forgetting your purpose and thinking too narrowly about your business. At first, Framework is "laptops that are repairable". But if you broaden what they are, they are a disruptor of direct-to-consumer computing equipment, with a core competency of repairability and upgradability. An integrated CPU/RAM is a decrease in that measure, but it is for a valid benefit - a large improvement in per…

> I wonder if modular memory will continue to evolve and be competitive bandwidth wise with soldered. That's the promise of CAMM2, which is supposed to enable socketed LPDDR with almost the same performance as soldered-down LPDDR. It's still pretty bleeding-edge though so it's hard to blame Framework for sticking with soldered memory for now.

CAMM2 only has a 128-bit bus so it's going to severely compromise performance for workloads that want higher interconnect bandwidth, which Strix Halo is targeted at. For things like that, wider busses are always going to give much better performance/watt than upping clock speeds.

I'd be more than happy to see CAMM2 in general laptops, but it will probably always be much weaker at shared GPU/CPU designs like Strix Halo, Grace, Apple's M series, etc.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#249
post #163

It is a weird product for the Framework brand. The pitch for the Framework laptop is that it is repairable/upgradable/modular. Something that is uncommon for laptops nowadays. This is the opposite. Desktops are modular by default, so much is that my computer is like the Ship of Theseus, I never changed it, but upgrade to upgrade, it is a completely different machine than it once was (it started off as a 486!). This o…

I know very few people that do anything other than upgrade their GPU or SSD during the entire lifespan of their computer. Maybe when I was younger I'd upgrade the RAM after saving up, but am fortunate enough now to be able to buy what I want up front. This product is for me. A few years ago I tried to repurpose a desktop with a bad motherboard, but it was impossible to find a replacement for the 7-year-old CPU. eBay…

Something I've noticed over the years is that a lot of PC enthusiast discussion seems to be self-selecting for those most likely to chase the latest hardware, which affects how they think and talk about future proofing or upgrade ability. The challenge with x86 PC is that because the platform is so flexible it casts the widest net over huge amounts of use cases and circumstances. The example that comes to mind is criticism over intel vs AMD chipsets/sockets with longer compatibility, but it comes down to what your demands are plus where you buy in the cycle of other components (DDR4 vs DDR5) and needed support. There are trade-offs everywhere.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is to comply with the ever changing export restrictions enacted by the current US administration. So don’t expect it to change soon.

That sounds misleading. The parent comment says all deliveries in Asia are limited to Taiwan. As far as I'm aware, export restrictions are only placed on certain chips going to China. How do export restrictions prevent Framework from shipping to i.e Japan?

In the case of Japan, it's likely an issue with Japanese regulations.

We have a very strict radio law that applies to anything that can produce radio or em waves

That includes motherboards, since they can technically emit on those frequencies.

From what I have seen, the framework laptop motherboards appear to abide by that law. However, I assume it's just expensive to figure out in the first place.

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