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U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

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Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#251
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point to the law that requires them to do it and keep quiet about it. The US law. I'll wait.

Heres an example of when Apple got caught giving the US government all users push notifications, and then quite openly said they had been bound by law to keep quiet about it. https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/apple-governments-surve... > "In this case, the federal government prohibited us from sharing any information,"

It wasn't the US government, and it wasn't all users.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#252
So they want this even after Salt Typhoon?

That would be the Salt Typhoon that allowed the Chinese to take over the USA's law enforcement agencies taps, and spy on the politicians, police and probably the spy's themselves. The outcome of that was the US government to plead with everyone to use the communication apps they hadn't broken, like Signal and Whatsapp [0]?

It was only two months ago, and they've forgotten already?

[0] https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366616972/Government-age...

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#253
post #5

I think this is an unquestionable overreach on the UK's part. If you live in any country that isn't the UK, you should feel the threat from this: the UK government believes that it is entitled to a backdoor on your hardware, even if you've never stepped a foot on UK soil or intend to. Mass surveillance is a threat to everyone, but this is not an instance of that, which has guards against it, like encryption. This is…

It isn't just UK. This isn't the first time a Nation decided that any company operating on its soil, would have to comply with an order that reach world wide operation and failure to do so would be fined on worldwide revenue.

This is just absurd.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#254
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Apple seem to try really quite hard to keep users data out of its hands

Non E2E encrypted on by default iCloud backups say otherwise.. And remember that enabling advanced data protection just means they'll get your conversations from the other partys' iCloud backups.

Most users' "threat model" is loss from actually losing things, or doing dumb things to themselves. They expect Apple to fix that.

Apple understands this, and in most markets there's a Genius Bar somewhere near the user, with technology letting Apple help them.

If your model is something else, they also have your back.

> remember that enabling advanced data protection just means they'll get your conversations from the other partys' iCloud backups

Conversations may have a counterparty not using ADP, your data storage probably doesn't.

And yes, who else can see things is very important. People show others "your" messages on their phones all the time, the more unfortunate the message, the more likely they are to overshare. Very much worth remembering they have copies of the same discussion, for this, and for backups.

While ADP won't solve betrayal of trust through analog sharing or digital resharing, Apple DO have a way to ensure your message is only between you and a personally verified counterparty:

- iMessage Contact Key Verification: https://support.apple.com/en-us/118246

After that, trust is up to you, or use a different app – knowing it can still be shown.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#255
post #145
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least UK demands it openly. The US spied on EU’s industry with ECHOLON, 9/11 prevented further investigations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON And the US and Germany sold backdoored crypto hardware to allies per Crypto AG in Switzerland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG My point is: the UK demands are bad but I‘m sure the US agencies have similar demands and also backdoors, I‘m looking at you Cisco, j…

>The US spied on EU’s industry with ECHOLON, 9/11 prevented further investigations. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON >And the US and Germany sold backdoored crypto hardware to allies per Crypto AG in Switzerland. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG From a quick skim it looks like in both cases surveillance was bilateral? In other words, European partner countries also got access. Again, I'm not claiming…

https://www.theregister.com/2019/05/02/cisco_vulnerabilities...

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-a...

Either Cisco is the most incompetent security company and should be excluded from any state use or at least some of the „errors“ are one purpose.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#256
post #183
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several examples, including blank piece of paper: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62883713

Nothing actually happened to the guy with the blank sheet of paper (or at least, if it did, that’s not reported in the article). Certainly you can find examples of the British police overpolicing protests, and that’s something that people rightly get angry about. It’s just that there’s a huge distance between that kind of thing (which happens pretty much everywhere from time to time - do US police forces have an exem…

> the kind of wild claims you can see in this discussion that the UK has become an Orwellian police state.

It feels like it's always slowly getting closer to that. It certainly seems one of the least free developed or 'allied' countries.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#257
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t like the UK governments stance on cyber security / counter-terrorism / et al either. In fact, as a UK citizen I’ve actively campaigned against a great many of their policies. However this “thought police” and “arrested for posting memes” comment that often gets pointed on here is itself a nonsense meme. What actually happened was people were arrested for instigating riots. This is no different to what…

>However this “thought police” and “arrested for posting memes” comment that often gets pointed on here is itself a nonsense meme. Are you for real? These accusations are not merely memes. While I don't endorse terrible people, it is note worth sometimes awful people are the target of even more awful laws. For example, you can do research into a person named "Adam Smith-Connor" who was literally convicted for standin…

> For example, you can do research into a person named "Adam Smith-Connor" who was literally convicted for standing in public while introspectively praying silently. The conduct of standing while appearing to pray was deemed as a form of illegal protest too near an abortion clinic.

Those people are not trying to genuinely prey, but to intimidate women considering or wanting to get an abortion.

> There are also well documented incidents in the UK involving the prosecution of people making remarks online, which could arguably cross into thought-crime territory.

On this I agree.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#258
post #5

I think this is an unquestionable overreach on the UK's part. If you live in any country that isn't the UK, you should feel the threat from this: the UK government believes that it is entitled to a backdoor on your hardware, even if you've never stepped a foot on UK soil or intend to. Mass surveillance is a threat to everyone, but this is not an instance of that, which has guards against it, like encryption. This is…

We should not normalize the idea that it's acceptable within a country's borders either. It's a massive overreach to demand a backdoor to phones within the country. Don't allow the even bigger overreach to move the Overton window and make it seem like it should ever be acceptable.

How is this different than FATCA? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Complian...

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#259

I keep saying this, and nobody believes me, but I'm just going to keep trying: These things happen because so often we focus the privacy conversation on corporations, which is exactly where the governments want it to be. My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much. We need to stop allowing the conversation to get distracted…

That’s not the worst thing a corp can do. The worst things a corp can do is sell your private data to someone else, monopolize a critical function and squeeze you dry, or block you from a monopolized utility that is critical to modern society. The focus need to be on both

Plus the common privacy threats: stalkers in the company accessing your private information, technical gaffes or breaches or unconcern exposing your private information, both of which could derail your life depending on what sort of marginalized groups you're a part of.

A stalker in LEO is bad, yes, but so is a stalker in your apartment lock managing company or at any other number of non-government companies you're forced to interact with.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#260
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst thing a corporation is likely to do (other than giving your data to governments) is to sell you something. That's all they want. They collect data so they can make money off you. That's not so scary to me. Governments want to put you in jail (or freeze your bank account, etc) if you get out of line. It depends what government and what corporations. If it's a healthy functionally representative government…

In a democracy, the government is an outcome of elections, however they represent the majority and you may not be in that majority. This is why you can't talk about democracy without a strong culture focusing on the individual's rights, aka liberalism, otherwise all you have is a tyranny of the majority. You're also deeply wrong. The fundamental difference between a state and corporations is that the state has a mono…

> This is why you can't talk about democracy without a strong culture focusing on the individual's rights, aka liberalism, otherwise all you have is a tyranny of the majority.

That's still all democracy is, though. A tyranny need not be absolute to be a tyranny.

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